Chris Williams/Jurriaan Bendien exchange

[Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Chris

Well I don't say I know much about protests in the USA, my knowledge about
the USA is limited to books, movies and people I've met. Also the USA is a
big place with about 281 million people in it so it is very difficult to
generalise about the USA.

Even though America is based upon immigration, and yet there are people
>who are trying to stop it.  And unless you are white, you can expect some
>kind of trouble...or so I have been told, since I am white.

It is no different anywhere in the rich countries really. The only correct
Marxist point of view I think is to say "no immigration controls" and
"freedom of movement". However this is not always an easy point of view to
put into practice, since, there will always be people who want to abuse the
generosity of people in another country, in which case they are just a
drain on the resources of that country, not an asset. When you take up
administrative responsibility for the government, therefore, you realize
that you cannot simply let just anybody into the country to live. So if you
are really against all immigration controls, it just means you cannot take
on particular political responsibilities, i.e. it has some implications for
your lifestyle. (In fact, if you are a consistent Marxist there would be
quite a few jobs you wouldn't want to do).

>Or if you look
>like you don't have a lot of money too.  Here in Henderson, they recently
>passed a law or something, I am not sure what exactly, trying to kick all the
>homeless out and into Las Vegas.  The reason was to "clean up"
>Henderson...pretty sick really.

You have homeless everywhere too. I have had a bit of contact in homeless
people here in Amsterdam. I have had some to stay the night, and often I
have given them some money. I cannot always do it, but I try to help if I
can. It hasn't anything to do with my political beliefs, it is just part of
my personal spiritual beliefs. Also, people told me once that I stank
(apparently they could not smell their own odor). So I thought I would go
and hang out with the "stinkies" for a while.

As regards the homeless, if you just look at it from the point of view of
pragmatic realism, often people do their economics wrong. It is in practice
often cheaper to provide the homeless with basic food and shelter, so you
reduce crime, the costs of crime prevention, and disease.

Karl Marx calls the genuine homeless part of the "lumpenproletariat". Marx
said, that working-class people have to be very watchful in dealings with
that kind of people, because those people CAN have very bad morals, so that
they cannot be relied on, i.e. you may not be able to trust them at all.
Often they are people whose lives have been destroyed, or they have some
psychological damage, which is very sad. Some are junkies etc. It is wrong
to see them as being "not human" or "human dirt", because they are human
beings with a right to a life. But Marx says you also have to watch out,
when you deal with them, so you know in what way you can trust them, or
not. They are liable to say anything or do anything for money etc.

What I am trying to say is this: Marxism is not about "looking after the
poor". That is called charity or compassion. You may feel that, as an
individual or as a group, and that is fine and good, it may help your karma
or whatever. The richer you are, the easier it is to give money away. But
Marxism is rather about the REVOLT against poverty, about people asserting
themselves for their rights, against all oppressive conditions. So Marx
doesn't say, "oh you poor miserable working class people, I feel so sorry
for you". Instead he says "it's time to think and stand up for yourself,
and fight for your rights".
This doesn't mean that you cannot be compassionate if you are a Marxist, of
course you are, because if you are not, if you do not have a sympathetic
view, you cannot really understand the situation that other people face.
But it is no use trying to help people simply "because you feel like
helping people", without really knowing what you are doing. That is stupid.

Actually I read in 1990 about a US activist who campaigned for the
homeless. His name was Mitch Snyder. One day they found Mitch dead. I think
he got killed, but I don't exactly know how he died. I think Mitch was a
deeply religious guy. I tend to think that if Mitch had been a Marxist, he
would still be alive, but that's just a speculation, I don't really know
that of course.

To finish up, I will tell you one more story. Back in the late 1840s and
early 1850s Karl Marx belonged to this group called the Communist League.
Well in 1848 there were some attempts at revolution in Europe, but they all
pretty much failed, and society stabilised again more or less in the old
way. Marx realised that the political situation had changed, and that it
would take a long time before a new revolutionary crisis would come. So he
quit the Communist League, and sat down to do his economic research about
capitalism. The other people in the Communist League were quite angry
however. They said, "you cannot simply quit and leave us, you traitor !".
Well Marx got angry too, and he replied, "look you want to make a
revolution but (a) a revolutionary situation does not realistically exist
now and (b) it will take TEN YEARS OR MORE to make yourself ready for
political power". Basically Marx felt, that these Communists he was working
with were very sincere, dedicated people, but they didn't have any real
skills or the knowledge needed for real political activity. They just ran
some kind of talkshop for radical ideas. And, so he told them "go get
yourself some real skills, some real know-how, because otherwise all your
wonderful ideas are just a fart in the bath anyhow". You can find the
details of this story in Boris Nicolaevsky's book or Hal Draper's book.
Well the moral of this story is that if you are really serious about
socialism or communism or whatever you call it, you need to get yourself
some real skills, things you can practically do, and get some real
understanding about what you are up against. You need them not just to
succeed in life, but also to have a real political effect.

And by the way, some interesting American periodicals to read are:
Socialist Action, Against the Current (published by Solidarity), and
Monthly Review. A mag from New Zealand that I read (because I lived there)
is Revolution, see www.revolution.org nz. It's also advertised on Louis
Proyect's site.

All the best

J.

Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org