Re: What does one say? Well, much more.

[Adam Levenstein <cleon42@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Hunter Gray <hunterbadbear@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Most parapsychologists are very well trained in the
> behavioral sciences --
> often are psychologists --  and are thoroughly
> ethical,  and  certainly
> subject themselves and others to rigorous
> examination of research
> methodology and interpretation.  Organizations such
> as the Parapsychological
> Association, American Society for Psychical
> Research, the [British] Society
> for Psychical Research, and the Parapsychology
> Foundation have all done
> signal service in establishing and maintaining
> consistently  high, tight
> standards.  And there are many such rigorously
> scientific bodies in the old,
> Red East.

Based on what? These "consistently high, tight
standards" result in incredibly shaky results when
applied correctly.

> As I continue to note, I have provided a number of
> very accessible
> references vis-a-vis the considerable body of
> solidly scientific material
> [ East and West ] supportive of the reality of such
> basic parapsychological
> phenomena as telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition,
> telekinesis or
> psychokinesis -- and at least strongly suggestive of
> the possibility of the
> "survival of the human personality beyond bodily
> death."

Research on "psychics" produced by pro-psychic
organizations and currents is shaky, at best. It's
rather like accepting a critique of capitalism from
the Cato Institute.

> What, perhaps not surprisingly, I haven't noted is
> any indication that the
> so-called "skeptics" on this List have any intimate
> familiarity with the
> large body of hard scientific research in this field
> -- or even any
> particular inclination to look at it.

Because the "hard scientific research" typically is
neither hard nor scientific. As Roland pointed out,
when strict measures are enforced striking results
quickly cease to be much more than chance.

> James Randi, a stage magician, may  be a very fine
> magician -- but I'm
> afraid I really don't see parapsycholgical research
> as his proper cup of
> tea.

James Randi is a stage magician and mentalist, yes.
Which gives him an excellent professional background
to spot frauds and charlatans calling themselves
"psychics" who use basic magicians' and mentalists'
tricks to fool people. Including parapsychologists.

Some folks on this list might recall Uri Geller being
shown up on the Johnny Carson show. It was Randi's
instructions to Carson to set some controls that
didn't let Geller get away with his usual chicanery.

> I did read much -- not all, but much -- of
> Carl Sagan's last book, "
> The Demon Haunted World" and did pick up some
> dimensions of interesting
> [and, for him, surprising]  ambivalence on some of
> this.  Since he died
> shortly thereafter, we'll never know if those notes
> comprised a "new
> direction" or simply a momentary vagary.

Carl Sagan had been a skeptic and founding CSICOP
fellow for years.

> But, for my part, I shall certainly take the likes
> of Gardner Murphy
> [long-time Director of Research at Menningers, long
> time professor at NYU,
> substantial service as President of the American
> Psychological Association,
> long-time President of the American Society for
> Psychical Research, as a
> card that certainly trumps a stage magician --
> excellent magician that the
> magician may be.

Appeal to authority? I'd thought better of you,
Hunter.

But I'll ignore the personal sneers.

> For a very detailed and critical examination of the
> American mother church
> of skeptics, see Professor George F. Hansen's
> "CSICOP and the Skeptics: An
> Overview" in The Journal of the American Society for
> Psychical Research,
> January, 1992, pp. 19-63.

Critical, I'm sure. Next, let's read a history of
Bolshevism by Richard Pipes.

<snip mysticism>

Adam


=====
Adam Levenstein                          cleon42@xxxxxxxxx
ICQ: 17125158

And now, for something completely different.

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