RE: Rain

["E.C.Apling" <E.C.Apling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Brief comments placed within Lou's paragraphs below:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Lou Paulsen
> Sent: 16 November 2000 01:52
> To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Rain
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: E.C.Apling <E.C.Apling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 2:32 PM
> Subject: RE: Rain
>
>
>
> >The real questions to be asked are
> >1. does global warming really exist?
> >(see <http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/Articles/2000/surface1.htm> to
> see how dodgy the evidence is)
>
>
> Ah, if only it were as simple as that.  Yes, if you go to that link, you
> find an article which appears to be written by a real scientist, with a
> degree, who does indeed claim to have shown how dodgy the evidence for
> global warming is.  However, as you well know, there are many articles on
> the other side, also by real scientists.

-- slightly snipped --  Absolutely agreed; my whole point is the question is
NOT  decided.  Probably we'll have to wait until the NEXT century before it
is really clear - by which time we'll all be dead...

My worry on so many of these matters are that political and economic
decisions are being taken by the rich countries, which are likely to have
inimical results for developments in the poor countries - and I suspect
results of computer modelling for such complex phenomena as the climate -
results of these models are constantly changing as the climatologists
attempt to make their models more realistic - and most would agree that
their models are far from finalised.

> Many real scientists  have written  in support of manifestly false
> propositions.

Just think of Lysenko !!
But actually all active scientists need to try to justify and proclaim their
results - and others need to try to confirm or falsify them.  The media just
present the most scary of results available....

> We Marxists know
> that we have  to deal with the real world, with scientific discovery.  How
do
> we Marxists  who are not trained climatologists proceed in dealing with
this > debate? Well, ideally we expand our parties until at some point we
have  trained Marxist climatologists among our ranks.  But short of that?
>
> Well, we ought at LEAST to do what we CAN do, what we are TRAINED to do,
> which is to look at the class forces behind the knowledge which is being
> presented to us.

I see no class forces behind reported research results themselves; I DO see
class forces behind their political dissemination and use...

>
> The article cited by Apling to establish the "dodginess" of the global
> warming evidence is by an Australian scientist named John L. Daly, and is
> presented to us on the website of something called the "Greening Earth
> Society".  This society takes the position that carbon dioxide is our
> friend.  The more, the better.  It will make plants grow and expand food
> production.  Burning fossil fuels is good for us all.  We are assured that
> pouring CO2 into the atmosphere by burning coal and oil has only good,
> food-producing effects, and has NO bad, climate-affecting effects.

I know nothing about John Daly.  I quoted his web-page because it is a good
explantion of the way in which "global climate" results are computed - and
the very real difficulties in ensuring realistic results.

It IS nonsense to talk about CO2 as a danger.  It is a proven fact that
plants can only grow and photosynthesise with adequate supplies of CO2 - and
that increasing CO2 results in more rapid growth and photosynthesis (given a
sufficient reply of light, water, nitrate, phosphate and potash + a variety
of other trace materials).  It has for long been recognised by greenhouse
growers that a raised CO2 is beneficial and many an installation provides
for this.


Pardon me for snipping the rest for reasons of brevity.

Paddy
NFHS Member #5594
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