Re: On Loving Oliver was Re: Jagger/Richards and Greenway on The English Revolution

["Alan Bradley" <alanb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: Gary MacLennan
> And what in the name of Jezuss is this legalistic bullshit about
> parole violation about?  Are you saying they deserved to be
> slaughtered?  How revolutionary of you!

The _garrison_ were in many cases English counter-revolutionaries, who had
taken up arms again after being spared the first time.  Killing them was
not a war-crime.  Killing the civilians was - but was normal when storming
cities.  "War is bad."

> I had no idea that there was such a fanatical Round Head up in sleepy
> boring old Toowomba.

Yes.  And most of my ancestors were Catholic (and sometimes even
Republican) Irish...

My real sympathies are of course with elements such as the Levellers, who
had opposed the expedition to Ireland, in terms that at times were naive
and patronising, but at other times impressively modern.  On the other
hand, the Levellers had no compunctions supporting the war against the
Scots, when they had invaded in the name of Charles II.  The Cromwellian
counter-invasion of Scotland stopped this from happening again.

The Third (English) Civil War was quite interesting.  The Royalist cause
was totally lost within England and Wales, but could still draw military
support from Scotland and Ireland.  This was just like the Jacobites later
on, and like them, it resulted in English military intervention, and the
suppression of the independent Scottish state and the de facto independent
Irish proto-state (, blob, thingy).

The divisions within the Irish factions were interesting too.  Both were
led by landowners, of course, but the Ulster based "Old Irish" faction
seemed to come closer to expressing the interests of the Irish peasantry.
Of course, it was the other faction that cut the deal with the English
Royalists that led to Cromwell invading...

Alan Bradley
alanb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx