Re: reply to Alan Bradley re PRD & DSP

["Alan Bradley" <alanb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: "Tom O'Lincoln"
> Trolling seems to be an internet word; I think maybe it comes from
> trawling.
> It means fishing around, doesn't it Alan?

>From the World Book Encyclopedia:
Some common methods of fishing include casting, still fishing, drift
fishing, trolling, and ice fishing.... In trolling, the bait is dragged, at
or below the surface, behind a moving boat.

It presumably became an Internet word when idiots started baiting people
into arguments.  (Echoes of mythical Scandinavian monsters also apply,
presumably).

> If so I guess this bit qualifies as trolling:
>
> >Surely your advocacy of a stages theory and rejection
> >of Trotskys theory of Permanent Revolution now places
> >you in a situation in which you must restrain forces
> >like the PRD.
>
> but the rest of the question was fair enough. Can meaningful democracy be
> achieved in Indonesia under capitalism? It seems to me that the logic of
> Ma'ruf's article is that it can't. Right now the army with its bombing
> campaign seems to be backing him up.
>
> This isn't an open and shut argument in theoretical terms: clearly some
> Asian countries have achieved both substantial increases in living
> standards (eg Taiwan) and some measure of parliamentary democracy (eg
> Thailand) under capitalism. But in the concrete case of Indonesia, I
> doubt that it's possible.

I agree.

It _might_ be possible for the Indonesian ruling class to achieve a new,
relatively stable political setup that churns out the profits again, but I
doubt it would have any particularly "democratic" character.  Even if it
does, the economy will still be in a hole.

The crisis is intractable.  There's got to be a socialist revolution.
Otherwise...

(But the cynical part of my mind says that "Otherwise..." is what we are
most likely to see.)

I guess I should make clear that the hostile tone of my initial response
was a reaction to the cartoon-Trotskyist implication that the DSP must be
Menshevik/Stalinist obstacles to the Indonesian Revolution.  As if we have
any serious impact on the Indonesian Revolution...  I still think Cde
Pearns should get out more.

Alan Bradley
alanb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx