L-I: RE: Insults

["Craven, Jim" <jcraven@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Response:

These Greenies, unable to deal with some basic facts, continually resort to
sleight-of-hand, caricatures of basic positions, nonsense concepts like
"speciesism" etc and just plain lack of command of the most elementary
logic.

For example it is a fact, not opinion, that Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd
are allied with out-and-out facists. Specifically they are allied with
Willis Carto of "The Spotlight" and the "Institute for Historical Review"
(referred to by the Southern Poverty Law Center as the "Number One
Anti-Semite and Holocaust denier in the U.S. and Watson has been featured in
"The Spotlight") and with Jack Metcalf, an open racist and anti-Indian in
Washington State. These are facts. Does that mean that subjectively or
intentionally or ideologically the Greenies in Sea Shepherd are fascists and
nazis? No. It does mean that they are allied with them and it does mean that
they know fully well with whom they have been allied as the connections of
Carto and Metcalf and others of their ilk have been well publicized--and
summarily dismissed--by the Sea Shepherd. Once they have summarily dismissed
any concern about being allied with open fascists and racists--whales are
cuter than Indians apparently--then we do call them the Sea Fascists as they
have openly declared their intent to ally themselves with known fascists
regardless of the appearances or the true costs; they become tacit
supporters of fascism in that they lend credibility to facists in other
arenas on the basis of narrow alliances on the whaling issues.

This person below must have some problem with some elementary English as
well as logic; what has happened to the quality of education at U of O? Note
below:

[the greenies] "wind up supporting forces [note supporting forces]
destroying 'Greenness' in addition to being racist and anti-Semitic and
fascist..." It is an absolute fact that some of the liberal greenies are
supporting forces like Metcalf and Carto that they know to be fascists (they
have said so in their responses and have also said that these alliances are
on whaling issues only--so screw everything and everyone else).

That is what was said, it is well documented and I don't need anyone to tell
me what to write on or to cover. Further, this organism (all organisms are
equal eh?) obviously knows nothing about Marxism in addition to knowing
nothing about elementary logic as well apparently. As for Marxist
principles, one of the most established is the principle of unity on the
basis of principle not on the basis of selective tactical alliances for
specific narrow "causes" or "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Notice no reference to my previous post on what exactly is meant,intended
and logically assumable  with reference ot Hitler as a vegetarian,
anti-smoker, self-professed animal lover and environmentalists as that would
have given this infantile and pedestrian and intellectually mediocre
response below nothing to work with or distort.

On with other things, these petit-bourgeois punk greenies are not worth one
more minute of my time.

Jim Craven




-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis R Redmond [mailto:dredmond@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 1:16 PM
To: 'marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Insults


On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Craven, Jim wrote:

> special-interest reductionism. Further, when some of those "Green groups"
> such as the Watson types ally themselves with known fascists, under the
> familiar banner of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend or at least
tactical
> ally", can be truly and sincerely "Green" and wind up actually supporting
> forces destroying "Greenness" (what happened to the environment and many
> non-human species under Hitler?) in addition to being racist, anti-Semitic
> and fascist who destroy certain humans as well.

(Ahem). Folks, might I remind everyone on the list that just because we
occasionally disagree with one another, this is not a license to call each
other racist/fascist/Nazi pond scum. If we're serious about engaging with
the ideas of Marx and carrying on the tradition of Marxist resistance, we
have to stop doing to each other what the total system *wants* us to do --
namely, stomp each other in a mad struggle for individual market share. I
myself have developed the hide of a rhinosceros, but there are lots of
people out there whose only contact with Marxism is going to be chatting
with someone on a listserv, and this kind of open symbolic violence
(which, incidentally, has a disturbingly patriarchal bent to it: men
beating on their chests, etc.) totally alienates them. I'd like to hear
more about the positive bridges being built between the enviros and
indigenous/4th world/NGO folks, myself.

-- Dennis


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