Re: More Delightful Insight From Jared

["Owen Jones" <owen.jones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> I am doing John the favor of unsubbing him. He obviously is not interested
> in having a serious conversation with Jared. Anybody else who feels
> motivated to drag the level of this maling list down in such a manner will
> also be unsubbed.

 This is getting rather ridiculous. I think I would be right in saying that
the majority of those unsubbed from this list were so because of their
objections to Jared Israel, a man who endorses the stooge of the Russian
oligarchs, Vladimir Putin; who supports a regime in Belgrade that includes
fascists and which carried out capitalist counter-revolution; who has a
blatantly racist attitude towards Albanians, Croats, and other Balkan
non-Serbs; who supported the ultra-nationalism and racism of the Serbian
counter-revolutionary regime; who accuses entire races of being fascist
through cultural/genetic predisposition; who falsifies history in the most
appalling doublespeak manner to strip the Serbian regime of any guilt and
crimes and pile it all on the Albanians; who claims the Albanians segregated
themselves to gain sympathy from Western journalists and then ethnically
cleansed themselves for the same reason; who supports campaigns of the
oppressors like suppressing self-determination for genuine NATIONS like
Kosovo and Chechnya; who supported a despicable reactionary war in Chechnya
which destroyed an entire nation merely so the puppet regime of the Russian
oligarchs would maintain its power and defend their property; who advocates
a reactionary theory with pretty dangerous implications of conflict between
nation and race rather than class; whose anti-imperialist pretensions are
easily exposed as meaningless by the fact he supported imperialist troops
against Albanians - in other words his only grudge against imperialism was
that they took the side of the MUSLIM Albanians (hey, the Chechens are also
MUSLIM...I see a pattern emerging - EVIL Muslims fighting the RIGHTEOUS
Slavs), etc...

 It is pretty clear who is allowed to stay on this list and who is not. If
you are a personal friend of Louis Proyect, you are perfectly allowed to
spread racist comments and for that matter any such similar shite. You are
allowed to call the entire Albanian people "dirty trash" without one
intervention or warning from him if he considers you a friendly
acquaintance. You are allowed to espouse the particularly reactionary
propaganda detailed above as Jared, and allowed to spread propaganda of an
often racist character against Albanians, as long as you are in with him. If
you object to the racism of some of Louis' friends, like comrade John Lacny,
indeed if you are a genuine anti-racist, you will face expulsion. Not for
being anti-racist - that's unfair - but for opposing the racism of one of
Louis' friends. Or indeed for opposing Jared's support of a regime that
includes fascists, and therefore being a genuine anti-fascist. We then get
the rather absurd situation of genuine anti-racists and anti-fascists being
expelled from a Marxism list because they object to Jared's offensive
propaganda.

 Why was John Lacny dragging down the quality of the list? Do you find the
quality is increased by endorsements of the figurehead of the Russian
oligarch bourgeoisie, the labelling of entire nations as "dirty trash",
accusing entire races of fascist predisposition, and falsifying history in
the most cheap and absurd ways such as accusing Albanians of segregating and
then ethnically cleansing themselves for sympathy from Western journalists?
Is THAT quality? Or maybe a particularly telling story that demonstrates in
a human way, something some Marxists refrain from doing in a rather cold
manner, of what the hideous regime in Belgrade is capable of?

 Maybe you should ask yourself, Louis, if it is worth expelling person after
person after person merely to protect one of your friends. There's not only
the people you unsub, but people who unsub themselves in disgust. I know of
12 people who have either unsubbed themselves or have been unsubbed by you
in disgust at Jared's work...is it really worth it for material which, if
printed out, would not be of sufficient quality to be wrapped around a
cardboard tube to wipe ones arse?

 I note that you called me "young man" in the message which was effectively
telling me to fuck off - indeed, the people leaving are relatively youth,
something the crisis and the rotting of the Left partly symbolised by people
like Jared means is inevitable. If people like you and him meant anything in
the workers' movement, it would die off, since you would only attract ageing
ex-Maoists and ex-Stalinists who start Red-Brown bullshit like those in
charge of the Russian Communist Party which youth would run a mile from.
This might be attractive to those dragged through cults half their life and
hence develop some form of animosity to Trotskyism as a whole whom they
blame for wasting their life, who start having secret doubts before they go
to sleep of the viability of class struggle and so find Jared's ideology of
race and nation war kind of seductive, who probably have not met a working
class person for a few generations, and whose sense of reality slowly drips
away as they spend their time tapping at a computer oblivious to the world
as it goes by.

 But no, Louis, you OWN this list and will not take a word of criticism from
a mere teenage Marxist on a small European island very seriously, I'm sure.
You'll mould a list with dozens of people on it in the way you personally
see fit. Fair enough. Bounce me if you want. Life will go on. Maybe you're
the reflection of my and other young leftists future self. Then I'll sit
back in my armchair and probably comment with disdain on my naive youth.

 Cheers

      Owen