Re: SA's "revolution" Re: Dialogue from Black-Left

["Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>> "Patrick Bond" <pbond@xxxxxxxxxx> 03/08/00 05:28AM >>>
> From:          "Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> So, who is the commander of these troops ? Who are these troops ? What
> is the composition of the army ? Did old apartheid just hand
> everything over to the ANC and Black soldiers ?

PB: 'Fraid so. One hears that apartheid already owned quite a
few key ANC soldiers, from the 1970s (so says a parliamentary leader
of the Pan Africanist Congress, whose list of top ANC apartheid spies
remains an ongoing controversy here). But subsequently, after
continuing harsh treatment, a good many ANC "MK" troops had such a
hard time of it that they walked out of the SA National Defence
Force. Who ordered the troops to invade Lesotho to protect the Katse
Dam while Maseru burned? Gatsha Buthelezi, head of Inkatha, and
acting president of SA while Madiba was in Canada. Madiba gave the
lunatic invasion full support. A great tragedy.

**********

CB: In the international anti-apartheid movement, Buthelezi's name is infamous. 
I
called someone a "Buthelezi" here recently. Inkatha had big battles with the 
ANC.
Buthelezi was an apartheid agent.  Therefore, all this does not contradict but 
confirm
what I am hypothesizing about.

Chris Hani's assassination was a sign of the balance of military forces in the 
country
as Mandela was ascending to the presidency. I think we must say now that 
Mandela's
walk out of prison , and trip around the world was too picture perfect. So, in 
a way,
I must agree with you that imperialism stage managed the revolution , once it 
saw that
it was inevitable.

It seems like you say the authentic ANC troops were driven out. That's what I 
would
expect. What percentage of the overall military is Black ? I just don't see the
apartheid fascists changing their spots and handing over a whole bunch of high 
tech
weaponry to the true command and control of Black masses of troops.  That would 
be  a
little like the Nazis handing over their war machine to the Jews, and just 
hanging
around to see what happened.


Also, I would even concede that it is some kind of U.S. based spoke regime that 
is
running the whole thing militarily , secretly. When I say concede, I mean not
necessarily white S. Africans. But a joint U.S./SA CIA/Apartheid Secret Police
continuation, with all high tech weaponry still under command and control of 
apartheid
agents, now neo-liberals. Something like this.

I question whether the ANC has state power in the full Engelsian sense of the
repressive apparatus, and overwhelming dominance of the repressive force, 
prisons,
standing bodies of armed personnel, police.

>CB: This is a bit of circularity here. The question in dispute is
whether the more radical policies that Russell advocates would
result in somekind of hit on South Africa by the combined forces,
military and economic , of imperialism and the remaining apartheid
forces, such that the conservatism of the ANC core is in the best
interest of the population at this time, despite the fact that it is
a capitulation to imperialism , and results in many capitalist and
not social democratic programs on the ground in

PB: Aside from the pharmaceutical pricing example I mentioned a
few posts ago, there hasn't been any attempt to really test the
envelope (just symbolism around Libya and Cuba friendship). Thanks
mainly to ACT-UP activists, the SA government won that telling
struggle, as the radical health minister stood relatively firm
(the follow-up is a wholly different story). But on the
financial-imperial front (since there's no practical basis, even from
mad white rightwingers, for military intervention against the ANC),
what did we learn about international banking punishment from, say,
Mahathir's capital controls, as just one example? That's a revealing
one because in September 1998 Al Gore was at Mahathir's throat. The
Malaysian shook him off and lived to tell the tale.

***********

CB: Oddly enough, Malaysia's anti-left, anti-communist credentials give it more 
room
to take risks. The ANC is under closer suspicion by the agents of imperialism.

************

But what examples would you use to clarify openings (or closures) in
int'l political-economic power relations today, Charles?


**********

CB: I would say what is going on in South Africa clarifies some closures in 
int'l
political-economic power relations now. I do not see many openings now. Mostly
defensive struggles around the world. What is the latest from Venezuela ? It is
important I think, to support the Cuban and Viet Namese revolutions as  enduring
openings, and sources of inspiration for when the world revolution gets big 
again.


CB