Re: THE MYSTERIOUS RAMSEY CLARK.

["Jay Moore" <research@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I've wondered sometimes about Ramsey Clark's political evolution a bit
myself and what he really thinks.  But this piece from "The Shadow" is a
real hatchet job.  I see from looking at "The Shadow's" other articles that
a fellow named Bill Weinberg, a NYC anarchist who wrote articles for "High
Times" about the Zapatistas, is one of the principals with the rag.
Weinberg seems to have some kind of personal vendetta against the Workers
World Party.  When we organized a Teach-In last year at University of
Vermont about the sanctions against Iraq, we invited someone from the WWP's
International Action Center to speak, because of course they have been in
the forefront of this struggle and had just been over there.  Weinberg got
wind of this somehow, and I had an email exchange with him in which he was
very hostile to the idea that someone from their party should speak.  I also
see  from looking at this and other articles in "The Shadow" that their
editorial position basically lines up with U.S. imperialism against
Yugoslavia.  So I would definitely take this "Manny's" article quite
skeptically.  Clark has, on the whole, for whatever his weirdnesses
defending the Larouchites, etc. has done a great many good things. (He once
came to testify in a trial of mine.)  I think he's a real "defector" to our
side.

Best,
Jay
http://www.neravt.com/left/



----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Pugliese <debsian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tony Abdo <aabdo@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; L-I
<leninist-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Abu Nasr <abu-nasr@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: THE MYSTERIOUS RAMSEY CLARK.


> Oh, Tony, you've been smoking the wrong type of weed.  You live near Waco,
> go get some from David Koresh'es ghost. (Get your Seventh Seal Weed here,
> Janet Reno says it's THE BOMB!) If I could get you some of my stash from
> Humboldt County, legally w/o getting the both of us sent down the river,
I'd
> send ya some. (and with my "98 pound" lack of muscles I'd be a "bitch" to
be
> raped pronto in federal prison!).
>   My guess is "Manny Goldstein" is a psedonym. If you wrote a piece like
> that would you want the WWP flameing you? "Emmanuel Goldstein" is a
> character in 1984, isn't it?
>    The militia watchers- you alluding to Mark Pitcavage of the Militia
> Watchdog, or somebody more well known like that Morris Dees scumbag? (Dees
> jacked off over his daughter's bed.  How you do that and not wake up a
child
> whose bed you're doing that over well I don't know. Or wanna know.The
> neo-nazis at Stormfront posted the divorce papers of Dees over their
> website.)
>     And what else to call a group that had the origins it did (what kinda
> Trots would be "tankies" re: the Hungarian revolt in 1956. Sure
> Dulles at the CIA and Ike egged on the Hungarians, but calling them
fascists
> puhleeze.
> That was the line of Herbert Aptheker. To have Marcy and Aptheker together
> hmm!
>    And here is the nub of the matter. As long as the WWP/IAC do the work
> they do, OK. I just don't think I'd be very safe in a "socialist" state
that
> they were the vanguard party in. They go on junkets to North Korea.
Probably
> thought Pol Pot was kewl.
> Not my idea of folks with good politics, even if they do yeoman work
> standing up to the Amerikkkan Empire.
>                                   Michael
> P.S.Between the leninists for Pat Buchanan and his Hitler-Stalin pact with
> Fulani/Newman and the DSA notables for Gore and Bradley, where are the
rest
> of us gonna go? Joel Kovel gets my vote. Unless, I use the "open primary"
to
> maximum effect her in California and really mess with it and vote for Dr.
> Alan "Mosh Pit" Keyes! The new Weakly Standard has a hit piece by that
> dweeb, Fred Barnes (who voted for Eldridge "Raping white woman is
> revolutionary" Cleaver, in 1968 and later worked for Yablonski's insurgent
> campaign for UMW Prez before he got iced by Tony Boyle) on Keyes and
Bauer,
> and the final page has a picture of Keyes in the mosh pit!
>
............................................................................
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Abdo <aabdo@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Ken Freeland <kenfree@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <aabdo@xxxxxxxxx>; <debsian@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: THE MYSTERIOUS RAMSEY CLARK.htm
>
>
> > One- This is a hit on the WWP.
> > Two-  WWP is not Stalinist, though it's enemies like to paint them as
> > such.
> > Three- Who is the mysterious "Manny Goldstein"?     A search reveals
> > only one other article, or any thing really, under Manny Goldstein.
> > But the article is curious because it has to do with Militias.    Both
> > articles are written very professionally and with great effect.     So
> > why so hard to see other work by "Manny".
> >
> > The militia search game (which the Ramsey article was written in this
> > style, also) is a favorite amongst certain crowds.      It is of note
> > that the EXPERT in this field keeps a large archive on the various
> > groups on the Right connected with the militia phenomena.      He also
> > happens to work closely with the FBI and various police angencies around
> > the country.
> >
> > Curious that the name Manny Goldstein only crops up once, with only one
> > similar style article.    Not a coincidence, but hard to track down who
> > is doing what here.      My guess is that  "Manny" is part of the US
> > government.      And that those who dislike the WWP have taken the feed.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> What the hell is this "shadow"?  Evidently somebody who stands up for all
> the
> world's leading imperialist causes like genocide in Iraq, NATO conquest of
> Yugoslavia, and the future dismantling of China under the signpost of
> supporting "oppressed" Tibetan mystic landlords.
>
> Who knows what Ramsey Clark's motivation is?  Who knows what any of our
> motivation is?  If he's a spook (spy) he's doing a better job in garnering
> public attention via the bourgeois media to causes like Iraq than any of
the
> Workers World or Socialist Workers parties or CPs ever did on their own.
>
> Are there rightwingers out there taking centre stage in the opposition to
> globalism and US military expansion?  Yes, there surely are.  Why?
Because
> the left is too busy or too tired to make the effort.  So, by default,
enter
> the right wing.  That's good.  It shows there is a constituency out there
> for
> opposition to these things, and whoever manages to lead it, I hope it
grows.
>
> With revolutionary greetings!
>
> Abu Nasr
>
>
>
> Michael Pugliese <debsian@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>  http://shadow.autono.net/sin001/clark.htm
>
>  --- from list leninist-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
>
>
> ..........................................................................
> Michael,
> Hey, thanks so much for sending me this one.  For gems like this, there
> will always be a place in my mailbox (even if I have to order a new hard
> drive!).
> You are a good educator.
>
> Peace,
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Pugliese [mailto:debsian@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:29 AM
> To: stormingheaven@xxxxxxxxxxx; Scott McLemee; Rachel; Owen Jones;
> nessie; Michael Albert; marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; L-I; Ken Freeland; John
> P. Lacny; Eric V. Kirk; eric garris; Dave Hill; aabdo@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: THE MYSTERIOUS RAMSEY CLARK
>
...........................................................................
>
> Between the leninists for Pat Buchanan and his Hitler-Stalin pact with
> Fulani/Newman and the DSA notables for Gore and Bradley, where are the
rest
> of us gonna go? Joel Kovel gets my vote. Unless, I use the "open primary"
to
> maximum effect her in California and really mess with it and vote for Dr.
> Alan "Mosh Pit" Keyes! The new Weakly Standard has a hit piece by that
> dweeb, Fred Barnes (who voted for Eldridge "Raping white woman is
> revolutionary" Cleaver, in 1968 and later worked for Yablonski's insurgent
> campaign for UMW Prez before he got iced) on Keyes and Bauer, and the
final
> page has a picture of Keyes in the mosh pit!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>