Homework [Fwd: [Fwd: [PEN-L:10812] Why China Failed to Become Capitalist]]

[Carrol Cox <cbcox@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

These debates began a month ago on a centrally important topic:
a debate over the validity of the question, "Why did China fail
to develop Capitalism?" That question was asked on Pen-L by
an overt anti-communist, a most distinguished estalishment
economist who really  meant all the implicatins of the verb "to
fail." That is, the question suggested that there was something
wrong with a civilization which, having the technological base
that would make capitalism possible, nevertheless "failed" to
develop it. As the post forwarded below shows, at that time
Lou Proyect took the same position that I have consistently
taken: that it was a false question.

So fundamentally, the "Brenner Debate" exists only in the fancy
of Lou and Jim Blaut. The debate was over a quite different
topic, theoretical in nature: validity of a "Stagist" theory of history.

The empirical material offered by Jim Blaut was of great
_subordinate_ interest to this debate, but only after clarity
had been achieved on the question first posed, whether or
not "priority" was equivalent to "superiority." Jim B. and Lou
more or less refused to acknowledge the central debate --
i.e., they were apparently unwilling to do *their* homework
on the central topic and instead  shifted the topic to a long academic
squabble on Brenner.

Jim Blaut recently posted to Pen-L complaining that most of the
debate's participants had not read Brenner. Some of us had,
some of us hadn't, but there was no need for those of us
interested in the original topic to either read or not read
Brenner.

Carrol
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Message-ID: <37F791FF.56228D6D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:27:27 -0500
From: Carrol Cox <cbcox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Fwd: [PEN-L:10812] Why China Failed to Become Capitalist]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------44B5C94E83984689F9280CDC"

The post forwarded below is, I believe, the post from which this entire
debate over origins and eurocentrism departed. That is, on September
10 Lou Proyect vigorously opposed the equation of priority with
superiority. Someplace along the route he switched positions and
now measures human excellence by the capacity of a civilization to
produce sprouts of capitalism. So clearly he now agrees with the
position expressed by Brad in this post.

Carrol

Received: from galaxy.csuchico.edu (galaxy.CSUChico.EDU [132.241.82.21])
        by mail.ilstu.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA18145
        for <cbcox@xxxxxxxxx>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:02:15 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by galaxy.csuchico.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23832;
        Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vanakam.cc.columbia.edu (vanakam.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.23])
        by galaxy.csuchico.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23806
        for <pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:07:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from louis (audi.ais.columbia.edu [128.59.223.163])
        by vanakam.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18428
        for <pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:00:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910150031.00e6e1f0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
X-Sender: lnp3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:00:31 -0400
To: pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [PEN-L:10812] Why China Failed to Become Capitalist
In-Reply-To: <v04210103b3ff0359e060@[128.32.105.158]>
References: <37D93CFE.2E829AC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 <1E5280B04EE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 <37D93CFE.2E829AC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.08 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000

At 11:50 AM 9/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>Isn't it wierd that capitalism has become so elevated that any
>>nation that doesn't
>>become capitalist is deemed a failure?
>
>
>Beats feudalism...

Yeah, only if it's the kind of thieving capitalism that Great Britain or
Spain specialized in. Peruvian Indians had it better off under the feudal
Incan empire, with all its exploitation. That's why an 18th century
rebellion against Spanish rule took on the name of Tupac Amaru, the last
Incan emperor.

Louis Proyect

(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)