state capitalist debate

[neil <74742.1651@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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Re:     Walt  D. vs. Karl C.  on state capital 06/26

Dear friends,

Karl C.  says "the elimination of private property form and the
retention of the the form of capitalist property is impossible....."

Karl is confusing  form with essence. The continued promotion of
wage labor and hence capitalism  is the quintessence of all
capitalist social relations!

Mere nationalisations of means of production are not incompatible
with capitalism was seen by socialists from Engels to Bebel  to
Bukharin up to present day marxists.

Engels states ;
"the transformation into joint-stock companies , or into state ownership
does not do away with the capitalist nature of the productive forces...The
modern state, no matter what its form , is essentially a capitalist machine
the ideal personification of the total national capital ..The workers remain
wage laboreers, proletarians . The capitalist relation is not done away with."
Anti-Duhring, Pg329

Engels also stresses this key point  in "Socialism -Utopian & Scientific, 
Pg39-40
International Publ, 1935 ed.

There is still much confusion amongst marxists (vs. social democrats
 & other capitalist refromers) over this issue . This needs to be
clarified  that nationalisation does not equal socialization -esp.
as carried out by proletarian rev. movements and organizations
in mass struggle.

Neil



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