Re: Rule Britannia? was Re: upheavals in England, 1640 - 1848

[Adam Rose <adam@xxxxxxxx>]

Gary writes:
>
> Adam, you are not, I am sure as you describe yourself an "argumentative
> bastard".  Leastways no more than me or I suspect, Rahul.
>
> Concretely, in Northern Ireland, protestant
> >workers are part of the solution, not the problem. Conversely, John Brutton 
> >or
> >Haughey or whoever are part of the problem, not the solution.
>
>
> Now this is an interesting part of your argument.  I used to go into a rage
> long years ago at Essex University at just this.  Always someone, usually
> from I.S. or Militant, would get up and denouce nationalism and come out
> with the ritual formula -Workers of N. Ireland Unite etc.
>
> Comrade Proyect has correctly urged us to be more empirical in our approach
> to formulating both theory and praxis.  Well all and I mean abosultely all
> the relevant data here suggests that the Protestant working class are
> totally committed to British Imperialism.  Theirs is the mentality of the
> white settler "colon". They are the pieds noirs of Ireland.  The irony is
> that the British would have done some deal long ago but for the last of the
> true blue imperialists- the Protestant working class.
>

I don't think you can realistically argue that Protestant workers  are
totally committed to British Imperialism. This statement just isn't based
on empirical reality. Ultimately, the Unionist ascendancy rested on a real
material base - if you were in the Orange lodge, this would get you a job
in the shipyards and a house. This base has gone, and this has weakened
the hold of Unionism. Paisley could never organise another sectarian strike
like they did in the 70's. I think this is even reflected in Protestant
paramilitaries political parties - they are, after all, attending negotiations
with the Irish government ! Other reflections include the changing position
of Unions with regard to discrimination at work - they used to ignore it,
pretend it wasn't happening. Now, they tend to have active anti-discrimination
policies ( sure, they don't neccessarily implement them ). Also, there is now
a Socialist Worker sale at Harland + Wolf - I think this would have been
physically dangerous even 10 years ago !
[ And, the NI beef farmers suddenly decided recently to argue that their
beef was really Irish, in order to get round the EU ban on British beef ! ]

And I can't comment on I.S at Essex University a long time ago - but we never 
get
up and denounce nationalism. The main thrust of all our arguments is to explain 
why
the problem is the British involvement in Ireland, why the troops should get 
out, why
the IRA have taken up arms, etc. In this respect, we have a different approach 
to
Militant. But when people say "The IRA's bombs will never achieve anything, 
will they ?" , we
can only agree with them and outline where we think a solution can come from.

Of course, protestant workers aren't going to change their allegiance from
British nationalism to Irish nationalism. If you give them a choice between
the two, they're going to vote for British nationalism.

>
> The enemy is British Imperialism.  While the IRA are confronting it, they
> have my support.  Critical of course, but support nevertheless.
>

Indeed. But we have to be honest and point out that they have no solution to
current impasse - neither bombs nor negotiations are going to get anywhere.
Even if there is a settlement ( say, under a Blair government ) , this 
settlement
will not solve ANY of the problems in Ireland.

Adam.



Adam Rose
SWP
Manchester
UK


---------------------------------------------------------------


     --- from list marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---