Re: Characteristics of slums - urban poor?

[malecki@xxxxxxxxxx (Robert Malecki)]

>Malecki,
>
>I finally understood something that was bothering me for sometime. Your
>posts, even though they may seem erratic, are actually consistent. And I've
>been thinking for some time some of your initial assumptions were wrong, and
>was trying to pinpoint them. After your piece on the urban poor, I think I
>now understand enough to disagree.
>
>For one, you uphold the historical-actual experience of being a member of
>the working class as something inherently providing with an ability to think
>and evaluate the class struggle correctly. In fact, the poorer the better.
>
>I will also admit, maybe to much disagreement in the list, Marx held a
>similar position. But, things do not work out that way, because the working
>class is very much under the influence of the ever growing bourgeoise
>ideological pressure. While I agree that class hatred and class instinct can
>and do arise out of actual experience, and that no "intellectual" can easily
>claim that until they become an intellectual/worker; we need theory,
>strategy, tactics, long-term positions and ideas. Your all-out denouncement
>of all -isms- (though you contradict that position sometimes), and your
>mistrust of revolutionaries trying to bring more insight and depth to the
>movement ("intellectual snobs") is harmful. The working class suffers more
>as a result, as it is defeated because the state has planned the next 10
>steps, while the angry toilers are confused.
>
>Here is some pieces from your quotes, and I've clipped most paragraphs since
>they were published in the list so everyone can go back and read the whole
>thing if they care to.
>
>>They are always trying to twist and turn our heads in all kinds of
>>directions. All the isms, Communism, Capitalism, Fascism were introduced
>>to poor and working class people by people who came from  another world.
>>These ideologies were introduced into the workers movement and the
>>workers and poor people were tricked into walking under one flag or
>>the other, usually leading to devastating effects for the worker
>>themselves.
>
>>They think that poor and working class people can't think and
>>therefore are always trying to stuff more bullshit down our throats!
>                                                                               
> >But we have one thing that they do not understand at all and that
>>is historical experience... That is, I mean poor and working class
>>people have the experience of suffering from the various ideas
>>presently popular in the upper-class circles. We are beginning to
>>understand that when these people start pointing their finger at
>>the enemy and scream kill, we had better watch our asses, because
>>it is usually poor and working class who wind up killing each other.
>
>Also, I'll call to aid Trotsky, whom you seem to accept. Are you aware of a
>concept, which Trotksy called a "transitional programme"? Hugh can find it
>somewhere for you, I don't have the book anymore so can't say which book it
>is best explained in.
>
>If you get that book, I'm sure you'll see where it comes in with what I'm
>saying.
>
>In solidarity,
>Zeynep
>
HI Zeynep,

Yeah you are absolutely right. My real problem is that i distrust
intellectuals. Yes your also right when you say i accept Trotsky and Lenin
also. But the problem for me is, its not Lenin and Trotsky, it is all the
Intellectuals that have twisted and turned these to great leaders into
something unrecognizable which is the problem. Lenin and Trotsky have become
a fucking toy for the intellectuals!

Naturally it has to do with society and how one grows up allso. I mean these
kids you talk about in turkey, i don,t think it has anything to do with what
the ideas are Lenin,Mao, Marx,Trotsky,. It is the who is presenting it..

This contradiction shines through not only with malecki who has an extreme
paranoia of intellectuals claiming to be marxists. It shows through on
another level between Aldolfo and Quispe and others on this list use this
"intellectual superiority as a real weapon..

I can feel it and smell it. This attitude. I know that the intellectuals can
never succeed without the vanguard of the poor and working class. But in my
lifetime it has just been mostly a battle of wits! It has nothing to do with
the real situation that workers find them selves in and a way out. The
people that have turned to the workers are just another form of reformist
with a few more left sounding demands. Just as the kids in turkey would
think that certain people are cops so can the workers see the difference
when it comes down to the cookie jar.

But i haven,t seen to many people talking to workers and poor kids in turkey
about revolution, lenin or trotsky. In fact the intellectuals find it hard
to believe about what we think at all. Look at all the snide remarks about
malecki,s book. It would be really interesting to take a couple of chapters
of my book and let some of these poor kids in Turkey read it. And then ask
them to wite about their own experiences. I bet it would be extremely
interesting...

But of course this is only my own feelings and experience. But despite my
anti-intellectua stance, which is real and probably incurable, i do say that
the poor and working class need a party for revolution. The problem is that
the people who i have met over the years on the left have hardly been my
people..

malecki in exile...




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