Re: Beef and revolution in Central America

[HANLY@xxxxxxxxxxx]

In reply to: Under communism alienated labor is vastly
>reduced but not abolished.
   Carnell wrote:
Can you elaborate on this last sentence?  How much 'alienated' labor
remains?
  COMMENT: Well as I understand Marx the division of labor is both necessary as
a means of increasing productivity but also alienating. In many jobs the work
done employs onlylimited, specific human powers. AAssembly line work is a
typical example. Technology is able to replace many of these jobs but the
division of labor and alienated labor in this sense will not disappear
under socialism. However, since Marx understood socialism to use advanced
technology to replace this labor whenever possible the labor time required
would be vastly reduced. How much? We'll have to wait and see. As downsizing
in capitalism shows it is obvious that less and less labor time is needed
for a given amount of production, and so the need for alienated labor of this
sort is decreasing and would decrease more under capitalism. As well many
needs under capitalism are surplus. Do we really need fifty different
deodorants rather than a dozen and a pre-natal care programme?

>As Marx puts it nature is man's inorganic body.(If you mistreat your body
>you mistreat yourself. If you degrade the environment then your humanity
>is reflected externally as this degraded object

How would one mistreat his or her body?

COMMENT: ? Come off it. Masturbation of course! And pollution is throwing your
seed on the ground. God punishes that as Onan discovered.

Carnell saith:
I'm very familiar with the Luddites actually.  I hope you're not
holding them up as a model.

COMMENT: I thought it was obvious but obviously it wasn't. I held them up as an
example of the fact that under capitalism increased use of technology is often
seen as a threat because it takes away jobs and thus workers' livelihood.
  So you know about the Luddites. What do you think? When they were sacked
they should have used the leisure to compose folk songs about the wonders of
 technological advance and the  marvelous abundance capitalism would create?
Cheers, Ken Hanly




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