Re: Ralph (verb not noun) on aesthetics

[lucinda <lucinda1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Despite my belief a discussion on rap might prove insightful, I was happy
to see the strand die because the insults and responces led to a very
mediocre level of discussion. While letting it die, I was very pleased
to see several posts on Jazz and on Blake which (while I sometimes missed
the relevance) seemed to progress and develop.
   Now, with Ralph's latest posting, I am thoroughly frustrated. Despite
the willingness of group members to engage in these discussions and the
tendency to almost acquiess on most points, Dumain again flies off the handle
as soon as anyone hints they see things differently.
   Dumain questions whether he was wasting his time with his posts, as no one
seemed to get the point. I have to confirm that apparently he was.
1) I thought the point was that beauty (such as Coltrane's jazz) provided
   a transcending experience which raised us above petty concerns. Despite
   a great time in the jazz archives, Dumain is still pissy.
2) I thought the point might be that beauty unites people to fight the good
   fight (after all, he wrote that white's would lie down their lives for
   Coltrane's vision). But of course, that argument applied to rap got me
   labeled a fascist, and Dumain appears unwilling to allow counter
   orientations even when they are centered on an appreciation of things
   he finds beautiful.
3) I thought the point might be that beauty is "revolutionary;" but the
   reasons for Blake's revolutionary attitude toward Blacks are attributed
   to a confrontation with the ugliness of slavery and the illustration
   of horrors the trade in slaves inspired.
3 b) I thought the point might be that there is somme universal standard, or
   at least  stand-point, from which beauty could be ascertained. But the
   artistic use of ugliness by rappers is rejected, and the reversal of
   supposedly universal standaards by Blake is celebrated. Why should I
   accept the anti-semitism and pseudo-benign racial attitudess of Blake
   if I must reject such tendenccies in more contemporary workks? Why should I
   accept the reversal of heaven and hell as a beautiful revolutionary
   statement, if I must reject the r reversal of beauty and ugliness? Why
   should some people be excused from responcibility based on historical po
   position, and not others?
4) I thought the point might be the illustration of how a careful analysis
   of art in context can raise revolutionary alternatives. However, Dumain
   asserts Blake's uniqueness in positing a complete reversal of heaven and
   hell, when Blake read, appreciated (and to my understanding drew upon
   in an acknowledged way) the work of other mystics, most notably Swedenburg.
   Indeed, counter to Dumain's dismissal of Eagleton and Rossi-Landi, these
   materialists contribute a significant point in demonstrating how the
   presence and influence of these other writers might have helped shape
   the work Blake did.
5) Finally, I held the belief that if nothing else, Dumain was demonstrating
   a very respectable attitude that compromise was unthinkable. Here if
   nowhere else, I had to respect Ralph and admit his contribution.
   Unfortunately, the man who dismisses rap for misogyny and Farrakhan for
   his anti-semitism is willing to suggest that the same attitudes from
   Blake are merely oversights in a man who otherwise stands above his peers.
   If we could accept that attitude toward Blake, than we can constructively
   engage others who combat the ugliness of day-to-day existence under the
   misfortunate and dangerous "counter-revolutionary" (or better yet, simply
   ugly) ideologies of racism and sexism.

This was the second post in which Dumain asks if everyone missed the point
in his posting particular items. It seems to me we would all benefit from
a more straight-forward presentation of what the point is. Despite very
insightful individual contributions, I find the totality incomprehensible.
I sometimes wonder, Ralph, if you are posting contradictions as an educational
device, but I sometimes wonder if there is a point at all.
Respectfully,
Brian Sinclair-James
P.S. I'm going off-line for a week, but I'm looking forward to the
response and continuation of other strands when I return. Thanks to all
on the list, maybe the beauty of plastic Santas can make revolution, reality.


     --- from list marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---

     ------------------