Re: Re Again on working class and the war in Yugoslavia

[Mauro junior <mauro.jr@xxxxxx>]

At 10.58 04/12/95 -0500, Bryan wrote:

>       So is the crime the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans (ca.
>1400-1912), or the "forced conversion" of West Slavs (in English, drop
>the "e" after "Slav")?  The latter has been pretty much debunked,
>although it's a popular myth among Bosniaks.

Mauro jr.
No, no. I think should be clear now the crime is Tito's invention of the
muslim nation.

 Bryan:

>       Hey, don't insult my knowledge of Italy before I say anything!
>:*  I didn't say "nation," I said "culture" - I don't care about
>nations.  And I love the cultural multiplicity of nations like my own,
>like Russia, and yes, like Italy (Sicily and the Po Valley - my favorite
>easy example).  I support the death of all nationalism - in favor of a
>return to local cultures.

Mauro jr:
some times you'll explain me what does it mean to be in favor of a return to
local culture. Is not the culture a superstructural product i.e. the
determination in the men's thought of their social relations and, more
generally the product of the historical accumulation of such determinations?
Thus the "local culture" is the remaining (if something remains) of the
ancient pre-capitalist social formations of isolated communities. These
remainings are destroyed day by day by the capitalism itself. Their present
renewal is the mean of the bourgeoisie in crisis for giving a ideological
counter-revolutionary point of reference (a reactionary goal) to the social
tensions from below. In stricter marxist words: is the determination in
thought of the despair of the present social formations, where the
revolution (for a lot of reason which are not at the stake here) is not in
the immediate agenda, while the society is progressively sliding into the
social barbarism.
But take the death of all nationalism: that's communism. Local cultures? In
the libraries, and sound and video libraries. This is not a will by anyone,
is the historical process of man, who BTW is getting out the pre-history.
We'll have to arrange the world production for the satisfactions of the
world needs, with all things that it implies, in the far (?) future we'll
have to get out the Earth. If you mean you want the "tarantella" to be
danced in Sicily and the "polenta" to be eaten in Po Valley, I'm with you.
But this has nothing to do (i Think) with the return to local cultures and
with___ the Yugo wars.
>
>       Tell me about Ljubjana.  What's new?  What's the word?  The DM,
>by the way, was the only effective currency in Mostar and Sarajevo and
>all the villages I passed through this summer.

Mauro jr:
Also in Slovenja, where it is hard even to eat in a reastaurant with the
"taller".

Bryan:
(Mauro)
> The Slovenian and the Croats
>> hoped to get inside the EEC, or at least to receive their investements. They
>> broke saying they were fed up of paying for the sheepers in Montenegro,
>> Macedonia, Kossovo.
>
>       Yeah - which is funny, given the support Croat and Slovene
>workers initially showed for Kosovar workers!

Mauro jr:
Hey, I meant the slovenian and croat bourhgeoisie, not the workers. By the
other hand, you are right reminding the active solidarity of the northern
workers to the Kosovars. When the struggles are defeated, the class
"dissolves" in the civil society (so beloved by many list-members)unitil the
new arising of labor: the worker loses his class identity for going back to
the bourgeois citizenship. In that way he/they accept the imposed politics
of the bourgeoisie.

Bryan:
>Folks have said zip on pre-1970 Yugoslavia, Mauro.  Annoying!  I'm with
>Dennis, as I said (below):
 Mauro jr:
Sorry I dont understand (my English is poor)
Rev. greetings
Mauro Junior
Tel  (-39)02/35.51.275 fax (-39)02/33.200.101



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