Re: [Critical-Realism] Critical Realist Philosophy of Information

["Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Jose

My fundamental point was that if you don't understand the meaning of
'information' in complete abstraction from 'meaning', you will not have a
self-consistent philosophical understanding of it.  I have yet to encounter
a professional philosopher or social scientist who does (though Bateson's "a
difference which makes a difference" comes close to it, leaving aside the
redundancy aspect).  Failure to do so is what has given rise to nihilistic
post-modern relativism.

Where I can agree with you is that taking the seminal paper out of context
may not be a good starting point.  One needs to understand Shannon's
presuppositions as a telephone engineer, and focus not on the mathematics
but on his model and his motive (to end up with error-correcting logic).
The purpose of the mathematics is to show how to make unpredictable noise
experimentally commensurate with intentional information, i.e. by simulating
signals with processed noise. 

Best

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Jose-Carlos Mariategui
Sent: 14 December 2007 06:40
To: Continuation of the Spoon Bhaskar List
Subject: Re: [Critical-Realism] Critical Realist Philosophy of Information

Dave and David:

I am not quite sure that taking the stance of reading Shannon's  
seminal paper will be a good starting point.  It might be if you take  
into consideration that, as Dave mentioned this is a more engineering- 
based perspective (I like a lot more rather than Shannon/Weaver  
seminal book another article from him: Shannon, C. (1968). Information  
Theory. Claude Elwood Shannon : collected papers. N. J. A. Sloane and  
A. D. Wyner. New York, IEEE Press: 212-213.).  Today there are other  
visions of information theory, more related to the social texture  
without leaving the technological perspective aside.

Some recent books that might be interesting from that arena:

Borgmann, A. (1999). Holding on to reality : the nature of information  
at the turn of the millennium. Chicago, University of Chicago Press.
	
Kallinikos, J. (2006). The Consequences of Information: Institutional  
Implications of Technological Change. London, Elgar Publishers.
	
Flusser, V. (2000). Towards a philosophy of photography. London,  
Reaktion Books. (this books does not talk so much about photography as  
it talks about information)

Kittler, F. A. (1997). The World of the Symbolic - A World of the  
Machine. Literature, media, information systems : essays. J. Johnston.  
Amsterdam, GB Arts International: 130-146.
	
I am not sure that Bhaskar writings are useful, perhaps more useful:  
Archer, M. S. (2002). "Realism And The Problem Of Agency." Journal of  
Critical Realism 5(1): 11-20.
	
what are you exactly working on in terms of information research?   
"Information" is a very general concept.

best,

Jose-Carlos Mariategui
Information Systems and Innovation Group - LSE (London)

On 14 Dec 2007, at 5:33AM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> David
>
> I should perhaps have said "the looping four-level [programming]  
> language
> Algol68" to draw attention to the analogy between an an algorithm  
> [named for
> Al Khorismi, inventor of the cyclic use of arabic numerals] and a  
> cyclic
> dialectic.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of  
> Dave
> Taylor
> Sent: 13 December 2007 23:24
> To: 'Continuation of the Spoon Bhaskar List'
> Subject: Re: [Critical-Realism] Critical Realist Philosophy of  
> Information
>
> David
>
> With respect, you want to go first to the primary sources, C E  
> Shannon's
> "The Mathematical Theory of Communication" (wherein information was  
> for the
> first time self-consistently defined, as distinguishable differences  
> in a
> signal decoded in a receiver, so "redundant" information could be  
> used to
> detect and correct false signals), and to the decoding of such  
> signals in
> the logic-based digital computers Shannon invented (first explicated  
> in the
> four-level [programming] language Algol68. [See Woodward and Bond,
> "Algol68-R Users Guide"], available on-line).  When you understand  
> those,
> and how switchable logic circuits performatively express programming
> information, how logic circuits and error correction feedback logics
> correspond to deductive and retroductive logic, and how four levels  
> on a
> linear measure are four phases of a circular measure, you will begin  
> to have
> the concepts necessary to understand how Bhaskar's dialectical model  
> of the
> scientific interpretation of reality is a particular case of the
> interpretation of information.  Whether Bhaskar or any other published
> Critical Realists have realised this well enough to articulate it  
> seems very
> unlikely.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:critical-realism-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of  
> David
> Opderbeck
> Sent: 13 December 2007 20:21
> To: critical-realism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Critical-Realism] Critical Realist Philosophy of Information
>
> I'm wondering if anyone could point me to sources concerning a  
> critical
> realist account of "information" and any connections to the field of  
> the
> philosophy of information.  Thanks.
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