Re: [AUT] critque of Holloway's power critique

["Michael Pugliese" <michael.098762001@xxxxxxxxx>]

   Heh, Keating are you like McCain and don't know how to Google
either? First hit @
http://www.google.com/search?q=%27Ruthless+Criticism%27
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/


On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Joe McGuire <proletaire2003@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Who are 'Ruthless Criticism'?  What are their perspectives?
>
> Kevin Keating
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, marcus <marcus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> From: marcus <marcus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AUT] critque of Holloway's power critique
> To: "Autonomia, Operaismo, and Class Composition"
> <aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:07 AM
>
> mpunkt is one of the gegenstandpunkt sect.
>
> jacques roux schrieb:
>> Quite impressive detective work, Angelus! Unfortunately, you are
> incorrect.
>>
>> The article is an excerpt from a longer piece by a German blogger named
> MPunkt, "Zur Kritik des Weltanschauungsmarxismus - In seinen alten und neuen
> Verlaufsformen" which also deals with Joachim Hirsch, Hardt and Negri, and
> the "value critics" (It is also based on arguments by your guy, Michael
> Heinrich). It is
>  available at:
> http://mpunkt.blogsport.de/images/neomarxismus.pdf
>>
>> MPunkt's essay does indeed have paginated citations to the German
> translation. These were left out because the book is available in English
> for
> free on the InterNet and web pages don't have pagination (plus the
> translator
> is lazy). And, yes, the translation is inelegant, but it is an effort to
> communicate the meaning of the criticism.
>>
>> This type of criticism is what is called "immanent," that is, it shows
> the self-contradictions in an argument. If an argument is internally
> inconsistent, then it cannot be true. In which case, criticism of the
> substance
> should be "secondary" because it would be superfluous. Your example of the
> respiratory system is silly because the respiratory system is part of the
> body
> and does not originate "from it." If you want to understand the respiratory
> system you have to follow a
>  process of abstraction. Similarly, in reality the
> state and capital are bound together and inseparable. But if you want to
> *explain* the relationship between the two, then you need take them apart in
> thought. If you explain the state from capital, you have not explained the
> state in its own terms, but have made a huge presupposition. If you just
> say,
> more dialectically, "the state is the reason for capitalism and capitalism
> is
> the reason for the state," you have not really said anything at all.
>>
>> Gegenstandpunkt cannot be a sect because its only precept is that one
> tries to think objectively about the world. It is not an organization but a
> journal put together by a lot of people who agree to work on it and think
> collectively. People can judge for themselves by checking out:
>> http://www.gegenstandpunkt.com/english/en_index.html
>> But alas, you have changed the subject from the criticism to the
>  critic!
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:59:10 -0700> From:
> fuerdenkommunismus@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AUT] critque of Holloway's
> power critique> To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Even if it's
> not stated anywhere, this article> transparently the product either of
> somebody> associated with the German quarterly
> "Gegenstandpunkt"> or their American Bay Area group of
> followers,> "Ruthless Criticism."> > The tell-tale signs are
> everywhere: > > - the stilted English that reads like a exaggeratedly>
> transliteral reproduction of a German original (for> all I know, it might
> have been originally written in> English, which would be even more hilarious
> since that> means that American GSPlers are learning to write like> their
> German role models)> > - the main critique of the person or school of
> thought> being criticized always rests upon the
>  allegation of> some sort
> of logical inconsistencies in argumentation> (substantive critique always
> seems secondary)> > - the assertion that so-and-so claims t
> his or that but> without offering any extensive citation or page>
> numbers> > - a reverse functionalism that sees all manifestations> of
> social life as ultimately being derived from the> imperatives of the state
> (which is why it's so> deliciously ironic that the author(s)
> accuse(s)> Holloway of functionalism)> > - Cheap attempts to set up
> logical "gotchas" like this> one: "If the state is necessary
> for the continuous> reproduction of capitalist social relations, it
> cannot> be explained how it could ever generally originate> from these
> social relations." > > So following that logic, if my respiratory
> system is> necessary for the continued reproduction of my body,> it
> cannot be explained how it
>  could ever have> originated from my body?>
>> The GSP is worth reading on occasion, but their> attempts to engage
> with thinkers outside of their sect> are usually this shallow. The most
> recent issue also> has a sleazy, disingenuous hit job on Michael>
> Heinrich.> > I swear, they must have a
>  cadre school where they all> learn to write like that. :-)> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________> aut-op-sy
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-- 
Michael Pugliese
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