Re: [AUT] Warning: autopcy used by idiots

[Jakob Jakobsen <jakobjakobsen@xxxxxx>]

Apologies Ben. I actually didn't want to hit Mute or you (as I did),  
but the "I-justed-listneded-and-had-my-difficulties-not-laughing-loud- 
from-time-to-time"-attitude that the counterpart of the exchange  
represented. Thanks for your reply.

Best

Jakob



Den 04/05/2007 kl. 17.45 skrev Benedict Seymour:

> Erm, Jakob, I suggest you re-read my mail and that of Kurasje  
> before you unleash your inner hatemail next time. Personally - and  
> I get the feeling there is some weird obscurity here - I have not  
> written anything derogatory about you, the conference or the  
> protestors in Denmark (and I certainly don't believe the SI were  
> anti-semites), so I don't quite see why this wave of venom.
>
> Stewart's article (ie HE wrote it, WE published it) suggested that  
> the conference was indeed worthwhile and special etc. Personally I  
> thought it sounded worthwhile and I don't believe Kurasje's  
> questions regarding the A-D suggest either he or I thought  
> otherwise. I think a reply to his question would, however, be  
> constructive, given that - as I'm sure you know - some fairly  
> hostile attitudes to the anti-deutsch exist and don't seem  
> ungrounded. But as I tried to make clear in my last mail, i don't  
> know why you/ the organisers invited them and I'm NOT saying you  
> shouldn't have - I would just like to know more).
>
> Having said that, it is very revealing to hear what you think about  
> Mute. Personally I was interested in the Durban shack dwellers  
> movement (is this what the reference to Cape Town or Karachi is  
> about?) partly because it reminded me of the struggle I was  
> involved in HERE in imperialist Hackney. Such struggles are a  
> source of inspiration not an object of condescension or  
> patronisation - but again you seem to have been reading the mag  
> with jaundiced eyes.
>
> As to your 'professional state funded politicos' thing, I just wish  
> I had managed to lay my hands on more money state or otherwise for  
> (anti-)political activity. What really pisses me off is your  
> assumption that you are the 'real thing' doing 'real' non-politico  
> state of exception stuff whereas Mute are bureaucrats passing  
> judgement on you. Frankly I think that in our different ways we do  
> as much in terms of 'confronting the state' as you,  but certainly  
> no one I know has slagged you off for being involved in the riots  
> in Copenhagen (or for your own encounters with state funding, for  
> that matter). On the contrary, I just wish you'd spend more time on  
> the former and less fomenting meaningless sectarian paranoia/guilt  
> trips.
>
> Anyway, here's to 'your' revolution, must be fun to own one of  
> those things.
> Ben
>
> ps incidentally, who said you were provincial, uneducated or  
> confused? Asking why you would invite members of a self-professed  
> pro-Israeli-nationalist group to a conference is not the same thing  
> as calling you names.
>
>
> On 4 May 2007, at 08:37, Jakob Jakobsen wrote:
>
> > I just came past my Autopsy folder in my mail programme and read  
> > the exchange between 'Kurasje Archive' and Ben from Mute about the  
> > Situationist Seminar and other activities in Copenhagen recently.  
> > My god. We are happy to be provincial, uneducated and confused, as  
> > long as we are not becoming professional state funded politicos  
> > sitting in our imperial offices protronizing what is happening in  
> > copenhagen, cape town or karachi. We are at least confronting the  
> > state to a degree that makes it impose a state of exception where  
> > we live, having more than 200 of our friends in jail, 800 arrested  
> > etc. The fact that we actually was trying to discuss rebelion in a  
> > historical perspective at the epicentre of the riots was pretty  
> > special - and perhaps the situationist were anti-semites. But who  
> > cares about the provinces...
> >
> > Good luck with your revolution, I prefer ours.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Jakob
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 29/04/2007 kl. 0.26 skrev Ben Seymour:
> >
> > > Hi J,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the mails. I should point out again that the text on  
> > > Copenhagen was by Stewart Home (not me), and the conference was  
> > > organised by a group of people including Jakob Jakobsen (see the  
> > > review for the others). Stewart took part in the discussion but  
> > > neither he nor Mute nor I selected the participants (ie it wasn't  
> > > 'our' conference). Not sure if you were clear on that, but sorry  
> > > if I have misunderstood you.
> > >
> > > I can forward this warning on to the organisers if you like,  
> > > though really who hasn't used the SI these days? When last I  
> > > looked they were even more obnoxiously part of the orthodoxy than  
> > > the (so-called) 'creative class' - tho I admit the SI could at  
> > > least come up with some trenchant slogans and thrilling  
> > > dialectical inversions. Not something you could accuse Richard  
> > > Florida of... In the visual arts dept of Goldsmiths college every  
> > > third sentence begins 'Guy Debord said...' and ends with some  
> > > horrific platitude about the irresistable subsumption of  
> > > everything under capital. One gets pretty suspicious of ANYONE  
> > > who mentions the SI.
> > >
> > > back to the point: I don't know what made them want to have these  
> > > anti-deutsch guys on the panel, but maybe it was out of a desire  
> > > to broaden the discussion and not become ideologically closed, or  
> > > because the anti-deutsch have glommed onto the SI (maybe they  
> > > deserve each other?) and hence wanted to participate. I have  
> > > heard plenty to make me want to keep well out of their way - not  
> > > difficult in the UK where they are beyond the ordinary level of  
> > > hyperobscurity enjoyed by left-wing sects.
> > >
> > > actually we published a piece by Tadzio Mueller criticising their  
> > > wacko pro-zionist nationalist anti-nationalism/ pro-US-capital-as- 
> > > most-advanced-form-of-capitalism schtick a few years ago (the  
> > > latter, even if one buys the idea of a relatively 'progressive'  
> > > form of capitalism,  is pretty funny in itself when you consider  
> > > what a vanguard of retrogression the US has become). worth a read  
> > > if you havent seen it already.
> > >
> > > anyway, I did wonder at that line of Stewart's myself and I'm  
> > > glad you bring it up. Has he heard something to suggest that the  
> > > AD have a 'more interesting end'? I agree, it's hard to imagine  
> > > what that might be.
> > >
> > > If you like you could post a comment and request more info from  
> > > Stewart via the 'comment' button next to the article on the Mute  
> > > website and i hope he will give you his considered reply (I don't  
> > > think he's signed up to autopsy). he's been known to engage in  
> > > the odd disputation and I'm sure would like to clarify things...  
> > > Failing that I'll ask him about it next week if he's back in  
> > > email contact.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the mails, and I will make sure to let you and  
> > > Dr Woo know when the Quadrelli text is published.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > On 28 Apr 2007, at 21:18, Kurasje Archive wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi again
> > > >
> > > > I have read the account on the recent Situationist meeting in  
> > > > Copenhagen once more and came across the following:
> > > >
> > > > "The second day was quite different in tone, beginning with an  
> > > > impassioned speech by a couple of German activists billed as Zwi  
> > > > Negator; this contribution was made from the perspective of the  
> > > > more interesting end of the 'Anti-Deutsche' movement. Zwi and  
> > > > Negator were using the Situationists as a springboard for  
> > > > getting people actively involved in contemporary politics and  
> > > > were clearly far more interested in this than an accurate  
> > > > assessment of the movement’s history"
> > > >
> > > > I don't really care about the attempts to keep Situationism  
> > > > alive  -  that is none of my bussiness. I find it somehow  
> > > > interesting, but only if it keeps on provoking and making real  
> > > > critical distance to capitalism.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what these Zwi and Negator are actually doing, but  
> > > > if they in anyway are claiming some belongings to the 'Anti- 
> > > > Deutsche' movement they should not have be allowed any formal  
> > > > participation at your conference.
> > > >
> > > > It might be that you are not aware of it, but the 'Anti- 
> > > > Deutsche' is a pro-capitalist provocation on the left scene of  
> > > > Germany. And it does not make any difference if they come to you  
> > > > with positions, that you may find among "the more interesting  
> > > > end of the 'Anti-Deutsche' movement".
> > > >
> > > > From your account it is also explicitly clear that the interest  
> > > > of these persons is not Situationism, but some political project  
> > > > of their own. You are being used !
> > > >
> > > > I will strongly suggest that present days Situationists make  
> > > > themselves clear about and against the 'Anti-German'-movement.
> > > >
> > > > J.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ben Seymour"
> > > > > To: "'Autonomia, Operaismo, and Class Composition'"
> > > > > Subject: [AUT] OUT NOW ON METAMUTE.ORG
> > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:18:57 +0100
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, hope one or both of these stories will be of interest to some
> > > > > people on this list - excuse the spamming.
> > > > > Ben
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > M | U | T | E | __ rrrrrread it!
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________________________25 April 07 _
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OUT NOW ON METAMUTE.ORG:
> > > > >
> > > > > The End of Copenhagen?
> > > > >
> > > > > by Stewart Home
> > > > >
> > > > > The Situationists and the Creative Class are neck and neck in  
> > > > > the competition
> > > > > for most mythologised ‘avant garde’. In riot-torn Copenhagen at  
> > > > > the
> > > > > end of last
> > > > > month the two converged. While the conference There's Life  
> > > > > After Death –
> > > > > Scandinavian Situationism in Perspective was laying to rest
> > > > > delusions about the
> > > > > SI, partisans of the creative class seized on the riots as a
> > > > > victory for the new creative
> > > > > vanguardists. Stewart Home rattles some cage
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.metamute.org/en/End-of-Copenhagen
> > > > >
> > > > > *
> > > > >
> > > > > The Circular Story of Black Arts Policy
> > > > >
> > > > > by Geoff Cox
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Hylton's recent book The Nature of the Beast: Cultural
> > > > > Diversity and the
> > > > > Visual Arts Sector indicts the multiple failures of state backed
> > > > > multiculturalism through
> > > > > a fine-combed history of visual arts policy in the UK. In this
> > > > > adaptation of a talk given at
> > > > > the launch of the book, Geoff Cox reads off the charges
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.metamute.org/en/Foreclosing-The-Nature-of-the-Beast
> > > > >
> > > > > *
> > > > >
> > > > > SUBSCRIBE TO MUTE MAGAZINE HERE:
> > > > > http://www.metamute.org/taxonomy/term/3480
> > > > >
> > > > > FOR A LIST OF STOCKISTS:
> > > > > http://www.metamute.org/node/254
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > aut-op-sy mailing list
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> > > > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aut-op-sy
> > > > > aut-op-sy
> > > >
> > > >  --
> > > >
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