Re: AUT: Re: Immeasurable value

[Tom Messmer <messmer@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Harry,
Thanks, your comment and the second half of that article actually
clears it up a bit. I was taken aback by the fact that he seems to be
introducing some sort of diffuse, fuzzy ubervalue created by their
every activity which seems to travel along with the Multitude wherever
it roams, its roaming now "heroic" rather  than probably just really
crappy for them.

All in all though, I did enjoy Empire, its a lively and thought
provoking read.
Tom

On Mar 28, 2004, at 3:35 AM, Harry M. Cleaver wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Eubulides wrote:
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Messmer" <messmer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any insight into the section in Empire 4.1 on
>> "Immeasurability"?  They write:
>>
>>  "Even if in postmodern capitalism there is
>> no longer a fixed scale that measures value, value nonetheless is
>> still
>> powerful and ubiquitous....In Empire, the construction of value takes
>> place
>> beyond measure."
>>
>> and
>>
>> "...outside measure refers to the impossibility of power's
>> calculating and
>> ordering production at a global level,  beyond measure refers to the
>> vitality
>> of the productive context, the expression of labor as desire, and its
>> capacities to constitute the biopolitical fabric of Empre from below."
>>
>> This entire chapter seems extremely fishy to me, really unclear and
>> vaguely religious sounding. Can anyone clarify this section, or is it
>> as
>> silly as I think it is?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> =====================
>>
>> It has been quite a while since I perused E but I think it has to do
>> with
>> a problem pointed out by David Ricardo:
>>
>> http://home.manhattan.edu/~fiona.maclachlan//research/Ricardo.htm
>>
> I don't think that's Toni's problem, at least I've never seen any
> indication of such. I think his problem derives from his conviction
> that
> the total subordination of life to capital makes it impossible to
> differentiate between labor time and other time - all time becomes
> labor
> time - and if you can't differentiate you can't measure a distinct
> time of
> labor/value. The corrolary is that struggle is everywhere and also
> immeasurable, thus the second paragraph quoted above. But struggle is
> just
> the creative content of living labor, thus a kind of neo-orthodox
> vision
> of revolution as living labor taking over. This vision pre-dates Empire
> and his appropriation of Deleuze & Guattari, Foucault and
> "biopolitics".
> See:
> http://www.eco.utexas.edu/facstaff/Cleaver/offenegri.html
> H.
>
>
>
> .......................................................................
> .....
> Snail-mail:
> Harry Cleaver
> University of Texas at Austin
> Department of Economics
> BRB 1.116
> 1 University Station, C3100
> Austin, Texas 78712-0301  USA
>
> Phone Numbers:
> (hm)  (512) 442-5036
> (off) (512) 475-8535
> Fax:(512) 471-3510
>
> E-mail:
> hmcleave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Cleaver homepage:
> http://www.eco.utexas.edu/facstaff/Cleaver/index.html
>
> Chiapas95 homepage:
> http://www.eco.utexas.edu/facstaff/Cleaver/chiapas95.html
> .......................................................................
> .....
>
>
>
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>
>
----
The money powers preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires
against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy,
more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It
denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw
light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of
corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the
country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the
prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of
a few, and the Republic is destroyed.

Abraham Lincoln



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