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Re: AUT: Re: Palestione, Israel and other ghettoes

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>>> s_h_hamilton@xxxxxxxxx 10/30/02 04:52PM >>>

This claim can be concretely tested by looking at the
many countries where a national bourgeoisie has been
put in place after the removal of colonialism or an
occuppying power. In country after country, we can see
that a national bourgeois government is a disaster,
ptting back struggle for years if not decades.=20
It is a disaster for practical and ideological
reasons. On the practical level, such a government
inevitably cracks down on the workers and peasants on
whose backs it climbed to power. It does this because
it cannot reconcile the democratic rights that
national capitalism it is supposed to underwrite with
the superexploitation of semi-colonies by imperialism.

Tahir: I'm getting confused here. I thought this was MY argument!

South Africa is a good example: there workers and
students are regularly killed by state security
forces, and strikes and now even protest marches are
being made harder and harder to hold (witness the
recent Earth Summit). As a semi-colony being
superexploited, South Africa cannot afford to allow
its workers and citizens democratic rights.

Tahir: There are many democratic rights here. That is not the problem.

 Winning
pay increases, or even, in many cases, holding onto
jobs, would threaten superprofits. So would putting
more money into education, or urban renewal. People
cannot be allowed to organise for these demands.

Tahir: Believe me they are organising for these demands.

The second attack that comes from a bourgeois national
government in place of colonialism or occupation is
ideological. Again, South Africa is a good example:
the fact that the ANC and Mandela are really only
hitmen for the IMF has taken a full decade to really
catch on amongst the SA workers and peasantry. It's a
bit hard to rebel against your hero, especially when
the 'revolutionary' left is saying he'll improve your
lot and set you up for socialism in the future.

Tahir: True. My own experiences as a member of the ANC in the early 90s =
made me aware of all this. I exited from the nationalist movement as fast =
as I could long before the first democratic elections. I have vowed never =
to vote for a professional politician after that enlightening period in my =
life.

Across the Third World, the great anti-imperialist
mobilisations of the 70s and 80s were defeated by the
cooption of leadership of the struggles by capitalism,
which turned them into national bourgeoisies
administering the extraction of superprofits. This is
true even in my country, amongst the various Maori
tribes who have 'settled' land claims with the
government and launched themselves as companies on the
proceeds.
Cheers
Scott

Tahir: But (see my other post) are you arguing for socialism in one =
country? It sure as hell looks like it.





=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"Revolution is not like cricket, not even one day cricket"

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<DIV><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; s_h_hamilton@xxxxxxxxx 10/30/02 04:52PM
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>This claim can be concretely tested by looking at
the<BR>many countries where a national bourgeoisie has been<BR>put in place
after the removal of colonialism or an<BR>occuppying power. In country after
country, we can see<BR>that a national bourgeois government is a
disaster,<BR>ptting back struggle for years if not decades. <BR>It is a disaster
for practical and ideological<BR>reasons. On the practical level, such a
government<BR>inevitably cracks down on the workers and peasants on<BR>whose
backs it climbed to power. It does this because<BR>it cannot reconcile the
democratic rights that<BR>national capitalism it is supposed to underwrite
with<BR>the superexploitation of semi-colonies by imperialism.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tahir: I'm getting confused here. I thought this was&nbsp;MY
argument!<BR><BR>South Africa is a good example: there workers and<BR>students
are regularly killed by state security<BR>forces, and strikes and now even
protest marches are<BR>being made harder and harder to hold (witness
the<BR>recent Earth Summit). As a semi-colony being<BR>superexploited, South
Africa cannot afford to allow<BR>its workers and citizens democratic
rights.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tahir: There are many democratic rights here. That is not the
problem.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;Winning<BR>pay increases, or even, in many cases, holding
onto<BR>jobs, would threaten superprofits. So would putting<BR>more money into
education, or urban renewal. People<BR>cannot be allowed to organise for these
demands.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tahir: Believe me they are organising for these demands.<BR><BR>The second
attack that comes from a bourgeois national<BR>government in place of
colonialism or occupation is<BR>ideological. Again, South Africa is a good
example:<BR>the fact that the ANC and Mandela are really only<BR>hitmen for the
IMF has taken a full decade to really<BR>catch on amongst the SA workers and
peasantry. It's a<BR>bit hard to rebel against your hero, especially when<BR>the
'revolutionary' left is saying he'll improve your<BR>lot and set you up for
socialism in the future.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tahir: True. My own experiences as a member of the ANC in the early 90s
made me aware of all this. I exited from the nationalist movement as fast as I
could long before the first democratic elections. I have vowed never to vote for
a professional politician after that enlightening period in my
life.<BR><BR>Across the Third World, the great anti-imperialist<BR>mobilisations
of the 70s and 80s were defeated by the<BR>cooption of leadership of the
struggles by capitalism,<BR>which turned them into national
bourgeoisies<BR>administering the extraction of superprofits. This is<BR>true
even in my country, amongst the various Maori<BR>tribes who have 'settled' land
claims with the<BR>government and launched themselves as companies on
the<BR>proceeds.<BR>Cheers<BR>Scott</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Tahir: But (see my other post) are you arguing for socialism in one
country? It sure as hell looks like
it.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"Revolution is not like cricket, not even
one day cricket"<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do
You Yahoo!?<BR>Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR>from News and
Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR><A
href="http://uk.my.yahoo.com";>http://uk.my.yahoo.com</A><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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