Re: AUT: Re: Academia....

[asc <satellitecrash@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Nate Holdren <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Sean-
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here. I just don't
> get how you can view
> academic institutions as reactionary and nothing
> but. I've already agreed
> with the reactionary role of them (agreeing on
> intuition though, as neither
> of us has made a case which would convince the
> skeptical), but it's more
> than a matter of being a site of production of
> ultraleft theory.
>
> Loads of folks get their first experiences in
> radical ideas,
> dissatisfaction, and action at universities. Sure,
> there's other routes to
> this and the university is not especially necessary
> to this, but to say
> they're only reactionary just seems silly to me.
> I'd say the same for the institution of the factory
> or trade unions or
> nearly any other institution. I don't like the
> function of the factory in
> capitalism and will one day see it abolished, but it
> seems wrong to me to
> say that the factory is a site wholly reactionary,
> as factories can be
> places for people's first radicalizing experiences
> with ideas,
> dissatisfaction, and the action of resistance.

Hello Nate,
i don't know i think factories, workplaces, are more
of a waste of time and/or produce things that are
wants not needs than they are reactionary...
universities are places where ideas and dialogues
about ideas are placed front and center, and not
production, or offering a service or whatever... so in
that the majority of theory and ideas being advocated
in universities are based on forwarding a system of
exploitation of humans and the earth that has no
future and can only lead to an impasse for the human
race i think universities are purely reactionary...
while workplaces can't really be classified as
progressive, radical, reactionary or whatever... i'm
just trying to say if you look at the great majority
of university production it's not critical of this
system, it's not talking about revolution or building
something different than the system we live under,
it's just a reactionary institution forwarding largely
reactionary solutions to capitalisms crises... insofar
as student movement's pick only the university as the
locus of whatever it is that motivates them to
mobilize i'm not sure how useful that is in terms of
undermining capitalism...

> I know this is very schematic, but I prefer to
> approach nearly all
> subsections of capitalism as being shot through with
> antagonisms that
> reproduce the antagonism of capital and labor. Your
> take on academics seems
> very one sided and monolithic.
>
> There are also examples historically both of
> students and academics making
> valuable contributions to struggles and of radicals
> using university
> institutions as resources to plunder toward
> revolutionary ends. Like the
> League of Revolutionary Black Workers
> use of the university newspaper to build their
> movement at the level of
> ideas, communication, and finances, or the actions
> of the Strasbourg
> Situationists to do the same.
> Of course both these examples were short-lived and
> brought down the force of
> the state, but I don't see how this means the
> academy equals pure
> reactionary.
> Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, or maybe this
> is another issue that
> as Harald often notes is not easily worked out
> through short emails but
> requires longer essays or something.
>
> Sean, by your lights do you see struggles in
> academia as entirely worthless?

that's what i'm coming to grips with and trying to
figure out, i consider myself to be a community
activist, i'm not in college anymore but i know some
student activists i advise them to do community stuff,
and i don't go to any events that seem geared toward
campus only... that's all the time i have right now...
love and rage,
-Sean
>
> best wishes,
> Nate
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: asc <satellitecrash@xxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Academia....
> >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hello Nate,
> >I disagree and I don't think I really overstated
> >anything...
> >
> >I would agree, though, that my analysis
> problematizes,
> >for one, student movements as a social movement
> (that
> >is to say student movements have played valuable
> roles
> >in many nation's politics), but i just think it's
> >erroneous to call any academic department
> 'radical'...
> >basically because of the reactionary nature of the
> >university and the university's role in turning out
> >sheep, but also b/c of the apathy and distaste for
> >organizing of the intellectuals, and the antagonism
> >that one often finds between universities and the
> >larger communities that they are situated in (no
> >organic bonds being fostered to develope a true
> >community of resistance)...
> >
> >so everything i've suggested really problematizes
> the
> >role of the university for anarchists and
> libertarian
> >communists, but hopefully most of us are busily
> >involved with social movements, and we have plenty
> of
> >time to figure this out...
> >love and rage,
> >-Sean
> >
> >p.s. sorry if there are any typo's my computer is
> >messed...
> >
> >p.p.s. the fact that the university turns out some
> >ultra-left theory i don't think is significant...
> >prisons also turn out ultra left theory i recommend
> >lorenzo komboa ervin's 'anarchism and the black
> >revolution'...
> >
> >--- Nate Holdren <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Hi Sean-
> > > No disrespect, but I think you take good points
> and
> > > overstate them, making
> > > your analysis pretty inadqeuate. I think I agree
> > > that the function of the
> > > university as a site internal to capitalist
> society
> > > is a reactionary one,
> > > maintaining and advancing social relations of
> > > capitalism. No one in the
> > > discussion on this or on students has really
> made a
> > > strong argument for the
> > > reactionary nature of the university, myself
> > > included, but I do think this
> > > is right.
> > >
> > > Still though, to say that universities and
> colleges
> > > produce wholly or solely
> > > reactionary results seems silly to me. Like any
> > > other place in capital, the
> > > university is a site of antagonistic struggle,
> and
> > > its behaviors are a
> > > result of the outcome of struggles. The reason I
> say
> > > this is that your take
> > > sounds very close to advocating abandoning the
> > > university as a site of
> > > struggle. The point that "hey there's a world
> beyond
> > > the campus" is one that
> > > many students regularly forget (at least I did)
> but
> > > struggles on and in
> > > sites of higher education (by students,
> teachers,
> > > and various staff) are a
> > > part of the antagonism which characterizes every
> > > moment of capitalist
> > > society. To make the 'real world/campus world'
> > > dichotomy sounds very close
> > > to a host of historical examples of people
> saying
> > > where the struggle is (the
> > > factory) and where it's not (the bedroom, the
> > > kitchen, the segregated buses,
> > > etc).
> > > Plus, it simply is the case that SOME folks
> employed
> > > in the academy DO read
> > > and propagate ultra-left ideas, including some
> folks
> > > who are on this list.
> > >
> > > all the best,
> > > Nate
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: asc <satellitecrash@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >Subject: AUT: Re: Academia....
> > > >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Hi autopsy,
> > > >just want to get my two cents in on the
> academia
> > > >debate that seems to have morphed into
> something
> > > else
> > > >(like everything thread on the list), but
> anyway
> > > i'm
> > > >surprised no one has advocated the position
> that
>
=== message truncated ===


=====
"You never ask why you've got a career,
but there is a reason why we're here,
Don't be busy doing nothing!"
    -Shelter-

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