Re: AUT: Re: Academia....

["Nate Holdren" <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Sean-
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here. I just don't get how you can view
academic institutions as reactionary and nothing but. I've already agreed
with the reactionary role of them (agreeing on intuition though, as neither
of us has made a case which would convince the skeptical), but it's more
than a matter of being a site of production of ultraleft theory.

Loads of folks get their first experiences in radical ideas,
dissatisfaction, and action at universities. Sure, there's other routes to
this and the university is not especially necessary to this, but to say
they're only reactionary just seems silly to me.
I'd say the same for the institution of the factory or trade unions or
nearly any other institution. I don't like the function of the factory in
capitalism and will one day see it abolished, but it seems wrong to me to
say that the factory is a site wholly reactionary, as factories can be
places for people's first radicalizing experiences with ideas,
dissatisfaction, and the action of resistance.
I know this is very schematic, but I prefer to approach nearly all
subsections of capitalism as being shot through with antagonisms that
reproduce the antagonism of capital and labor. Your take on academics seems
very one sided and monolithic.

There are also examples historically both of students and academics making
valuable contributions to struggles and of radicals using university
institutions as resources to plunder toward revolutionary ends. Like the
League of Revolutionary Black Workers
use of the university newspaper to build their movement at the level of
ideas, communication, and finances, or the actions of the Strasbourg
Situationists to do the same.
Of course both these examples were short-lived and brought down the force of
the state, but I don't see how this means the academy equals pure
reactionary.
Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, or maybe this is another issue that
as Harald often notes is not easily worked out through short emails but
requires longer essays or something.

Sean, by your lights do you see struggles in academia as entirely worthless?

best wishes,
Nate






>From: asc <satellitecrash@xxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Academia....
>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hello Nate,
>I disagree and I don't think I really overstated
>anything...
>
>I would agree, though, that my analysis problematizes,
>for one, student movements as a social movement (that
>is to say student movements have played valuable roles
>in many nation's politics), but i just think it's
>erroneous to call any academic department 'radical'...
>basically because of the reactionary nature of the
>university and the university's role in turning out
>sheep, but also b/c of the apathy and distaste for
>organizing of the intellectuals, and the antagonism
>that one often finds between universities and the
>larger communities that they are situated in (no
>organic bonds being fostered to develope a true
>community of resistance)...
>
>so everything i've suggested really problematizes the
>role of the university for anarchists and libertarian
>communists, but hopefully most of us are busily
>involved with social movements, and we have plenty of
>time to figure this out...
>love and rage,
>-Sean
>
>p.s. sorry if there are any typo's my computer is
>messed...
>
>p.p.s. the fact that the university turns out some
>ultra-left theory i don't think is significant...
>prisons also turn out ultra left theory i recommend
>lorenzo komboa ervin's 'anarchism and the black
>revolution'...
>
>--- Nate Holdren <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi Sean-
> > No disrespect, but I think you take good points and
> > overstate them, making
> > your analysis pretty inadqeuate. I think I agree
> > that the function of the
> > university as a site internal to capitalist society
> > is a reactionary one,
> > maintaining and advancing social relations of
> > capitalism. No one in the
> > discussion on this or on students has really made a
> > strong argument for the
> > reactionary nature of the university, myself
> > included, but I do think this
> > is right.
> >
> > Still though, to say that universities and colleges
> > produce wholly or solely
> > reactionary results seems silly to me. Like any
> > other place in capital, the
> > university is a site of antagonistic struggle, and
> > its behaviors are a
> > result of the outcome of struggles. The reason I say
> > this is that your take
> > sounds very close to advocating abandoning the
> > university as a site of
> > struggle. The point that "hey there's a world beyond
> > the campus" is one that
> > many students regularly forget (at least I did) but
> > struggles on and in
> > sites of higher education (by students, teachers,
> > and various staff) are a
> > part of the antagonism which characterizes every
> > moment of capitalist
> > society. To make the 'real world/campus world'
> > dichotomy sounds very close
> > to a host of historical examples of people saying
> > where the struggle is (the
> > factory) and where it's not (the bedroom, the
> > kitchen, the segregated buses,
> > etc).
> > Plus, it simply is the case that SOME folks employed
> > in the academy DO read
> > and propagate ultra-left ideas, including some folks
> > who are on this list.
> >
> > all the best,
> > Nate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: asc <satellitecrash@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: AUT: Re: Academia....
> > >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Hi autopsy,
> > >just want to get my two cents in on the academia
> > >debate that seems to have morphed into something
> > else
> > >(like everything thread on the list), but anyway
> > i'm
> > >surprised no one has advocated the position that
> > EVERY
> > >academic department is wholly reactionary... it
> > took
> > >me quite sometime to figure this out, but i think
> > that
> > >was because i'd been trapped on university campuses
> > >for four years! there's a whole world out there
> > with
> > >real social issues, people dying, emperors starting
> > >wars, etc, etc... the university is just like a
> > little
> > >gated community on mountaintop insulated from all
> > the
> > >stuff outside of where the class struggles,
> > ecological
> > >devastation, fight for control of resources,
> > >extermination of native populations etc., etc. is
> > >taking place... every once in awhile (or all the
> > time
> > >with the really 'radical' profs) some of these
> > issues
> > >are paraded out in front of the student body/given
> > the
> > >spotlight, and it's really unclear what else can be
> > >done further than discussing the issues and writing
> > >eloquently penned critiques of the unjust
> > >situations...
> > >
> > >i'm not saying i'm not ever going to go to a
> > >university again, i'm just saying take the
> > education
> > >with a grain a salt, i mean i basically view
> > >university as the training ground for the ruling
> > class
> > >and their sycophants; there's a reason why even the
> > >most radical academics aren't reading and teaching
> > >things like the texts on a lot of the far left
> > >websites that are plugged on this list all the
> > time...
> > >it's because their radicalism is limited by an
> > >incomplete critique of both society and it's
> > >institutions, reactionary elements that have been
> > >grandfathered into control of their discipline, and
> > >their own inability to reach outside the ivory
> > tower
> > >to engage in the real movements of the day that
> > will
> > >destroy the present state of things.
> > >love and rage,
> > >-Sean
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >      --- from list
> > aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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