Re: AUT: Priviledging economics over psychology....

[commie zero zero <commie00@xxxxxxxxx>]

harald.

i'm afraid i don't have the time to play the quote
game. tho i could the same thing you did, with
translations from the same passages that sound very
different that the ones you gave. i grew up in the
catholic church, under a pastor who constistantly got
in trouble for being a liberation theologist. and thus
speant years studying this shite (which has given me
access to folks who do direct translations from greek
and hewbrew). but i really don't see the point. esp.
since you seem to like to give me shit about nothing
and insult me.

where i'm from, people use the phrases "several" and
"couple" to mean the same thing. thus, steve
mentioning two things i called "several". sorry i'm in
the habits of colloquial speach, but there you are.

as for only taking what you like from marx (or
whatever), you only say this because i continually
refuse to play these inane games with you. there's
never been a point where you have quoted marx to
"prove me wrong" where i couldn't have quoted marx
saying something (possibly opposite) to "prove me
right". but what's the point? i'm not really all the
interested in intellectual dick-waving, and that kind
of acedemic garbage bores me in most cases.

i wouldn't have answered this email, only i'm tired of
this. its annoying and stupid. you always sound like
you're more determined to prove how you're not a
marxist (or not a catholic, in this case) and beat
people down with your huge intellectual prick. a
serious case of a lack of confidence? maybe. and
whether or not this is true, this is how you often
come accross.

i only post this to the list because i feel the need
to defend myself in some small way. but i won't
discuss this further in public. feel free to email me
privately.

by the way, the net is very controversial, and
considered among the most sectarian of translations,
with trnaslators who have a big fucking agenda (mostly
an anti-lib theology, anti-process theology one,
sactioned by the vatican and other, protestant
authorities).

> Commie00, you seem to read the Bible as you read
> Marx. You
> see what you want to see there, and nothing more,
> even when it
> stares you in the eye.
>
> You write: "as steve pointed out there are several
> kinds of
> "christianities" that don't believe in hell... "
>
> He did not Commie. He mentioned one kind, Christian
> Scientist,
> and added "I imagine Quakers may be similar,
> although
> I don't know."  That is not the same as "point[ing]
> out there are
> several ...," is it?  I mention this as I feel that
> this is often how
> you communicate your reading of texts. I don't see
> you at
> as being dishonest to others, only to yourself.
>
> Sorry, but due to this I am not really know what to
> make out
> of your claim  that there are "multiple catholic
> theologies that
> deny the existance of hell altogether,"  though it
> might be true.
> Nate wrote that "I'm pretty sure the catholic monk
> Thomas
> Merton tried to posit a christianity w/ out hell".
>
> Then you write: "as for christ, in the original
> greek versions
> of the bible, christ never once mentions hell. and
> its been a
> while since i've read the bible, but i'm pretty sure
> he never
> mentions it in the english translations, either. .."
>
> You may believe that, but this hardly makes it
> truer. You seem
> to be under the impression that the original Greek
> version was
> more "progressive," while the opposite is more
> likely closer
> to the truth. As I mentioned in my last post, I have
> not looked
> into these things for years, and my main source-book
> from
> back then seem to have got lost, but I don't think
> my memory
> is quite that bad. I will return to the hell-thing
> further down
> but first, a taste of a more literal translation
> from Greek.
>
> Matthew: 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and wise
> slave, whom
> the master has put in charge of his household, to
> give the other
> slaves their food at the proper time? 24:46 Blessed
> is that
> slave whom the master finds at work when he comes.
> 24:47 I
> tell you the truth, the master will put him in
> charge of all his
> possessions. 24:48 But if that evil slave should say
> to himself,
> 'My master is staying away a long time,' 24:49 and
> he begins
> to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with
> drunkards,
> 24:50 then the master of that slave will come on a
> day when
> he does not expect him and at an hour he does not
> foresee,
> 24:51 and will cut him in two, and assign him a
> place with
> the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and
> gnashing of teeth."
>
> Don't you just love that line; " Blessed is that
> slave whom the
> master finds at work when he comes." Of course, in
> most Bible
> translations they have sweetened the pill a bit by
> translating
> the Greek "dou'lo" to "servant". The most accurate
> translation
> is said to be "bondservant".
>
> And while we are at it:
>
> Matthew: 8:5 "When he entered Capernaum, a centurion
> came to him
> asking for help: 8:6 "Lord,12 my servant is lying at
> home paralyzed, in
> terrible anguish." 8:7 Jesus said to him, "I will
> come and heal him."
> 8:8 But the centurion replied, "Lord, I am not
> worthy to have you come
> under my roof. Instead, just say the word and my
> servant will be healed.
> 8:9  For I too am a man under authority, with
> soldiers under me. I say
> to this one, 'Go' and he goes, and to another 'Come'
> and he comes,
> and to my slave 'Do this' and he does it."19 8: When
> Jesus heard this
> he was amazed and said to those who followed him, "I
> tell you the
> truth, I have not found such faith in anyone in
> Israel!"
>
> Real anarchy this, don't you think so?
>
> Now let us approach hell.
>
> Matthew: 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his
> glory and all the angels
> with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
> 25:32 All the nations
> will be assembled before him, and he will separate
> people one from another
> like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
> 25:33 He will put the
> sheep on his right and the goats on his left. [...]
> 25:41 "Then he will say
> to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed,
> into the eternal fire
> that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!
> [...] 25:46 And these
> will depart into eternal punishment, but the
> righteous into eternal life."
>
> Stll no direct mention of hell. But "into the
> eternal fire" and "into
> eternal punishment" is not be misunderstood is it?
> Nice thing
> for kids, don't you think so? I think I prefer the
> Endlsung. At least
> it had an end.
>
> Here is another nice one:
>
> Luke: 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine who
> did not want me
> to be their king [in Greek " did not want me to rule
> over them."], bring
> them here and slaughter them in front of me."
>
> Not eternal hellfire but still not very nice and
> humantarian, and for sure
> not very anarchistic.
>
> Then:
>
> Matthew: " 13:40 As the weeds are collected and
> burned with fire,
> so it will be at the end of the age. 13:41 The Son
> of Man will send
> his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom
> everything that
> causes sin as well as all lawbreakers. 13:42 They
> will throw them
> into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping
> and gnashing
> of teeth."
>
> Matthew. 23:33 "You snakes, you offspring of vipers!
> How will you
> escape being condemned to hell?"
>
> Matthew: 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill
> the
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commie00
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