aut-op-sy
mailing list archive
[ Other Periods
| Other mailing lists
| Search
]
Date:
[ Previous
| Next
]
Thread:
[ Previous
| Next
]
Index:
[ Author
| Date
| Thread
]
Re: AUT: cognitive mapping
- Subject: Re: AUT: cognitive mapping
- From: "Chris Hurl" <munkah@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:11:03 -0700
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Hey Chris,<BR><BR>Thanks for the feedback.</P>
<P>I am very interested in these worker's inquiries of which you speak... Can you recommend any books/articles on this topic?</P>
<P>chris(h)</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: cwright <CWRIGHT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<DIV></DIV>>To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: AUT: cognitive mapping
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:52:50 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Hey Nate,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I'm just gonna say that insight into how capital works and aspects of policy
<DIV></DIV>>is still not the same as giving insight into the psychological processes of
<DIV></DIV>>revolutionaries in order to better manipulate them. However, I really don't
<DIV></DIV>>have an opinion on this whole cognitive mapping idea in the first place.
<DIV></DIV>>How different is it, for example, from a kind of workers' inquiry project?
<DIV></DIV>>The intent of the workers' inquiry involved getting people active in
<DIV></DIV>>understanding their own oppression, but not under the assumption that they
<DIV></DIV>>were passive, but that the kind of knowledge generated was also an activity
<DIV></DIV>>which informed and assisted the workers interviewed and helped build links
<DIV></DIV>>between 'non-revolutionary workers' and revolutionaries. At the sime time,
<DIV></DIV>>such a project could be all too useful for capital, but its a matter of what
<DIV></DIV>>the intent is, in the way that Freiere's pedagogy was about creating the
<DIV></DIV>>feeling among the peasants he worked with that their thoughts mattered and
<DIV></DIV>>that the fact that they thought mattered. Of course, that might be more
<DIV></DIV>>consciousness mongering...
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>But when the term is put as a kind of 'cognitive mapping', I'm just not sure
<DIV></DIV>>what of make of it. 'Mapping' already seems to be a philosophically errant
<DIV></DIV>>process, such as mapping concepts to objects, which already puts the
<DIV></DIV>>concepts outside the objects and is laden with huge problems. Maybe this is
<DIV></DIV>>cool with the Deleuzians (though a philosophy of immanence would seem to not
<DIV></DIV>>welcome this either, possibly), but for Hegelian Marxists this should
<DIV></DIV>>already smack of problems. But its only a feeling, a hinting at something
<DIV></DIV>>which I cannot work through right now. So now I have said more than I
<DIV></DIV>>wanted to because I don't know enough to say anything particularly helpful.
<DIV></DIV>>I simply think that Chris H.'s project is nothing like Capital, but might be
<DIV></DIV>>better understood and/or critiqued if thought of as something more like a
<DIV></DIV>>workers' inquiry. I have been interested in the latter for years now and
<DIV></DIV>>have been very interested in the Kolinko folks' own work in this realm.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Now I shut up.
<DIV></DIV>>Cheers,
<DIV></DIV>>Chris
<DIV></DIV>>"In a world which really is topsy-turvy, the true is a moment of the
<DIV></DIV>>false." - Debord
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Nate Holdren" <NATEHOLDREN@xxxxxxxxxxx>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <AUT-OP-SY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:20 AM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: AUT: cognitive mapping
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > Hi Chris (Wright)-
<DIV></DIV>> > I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I remember _Reading
<DIV></DIV>> > Capital Politically_ talking somewhat about economists in service of
<DIV></DIV>>capital
<DIV></DIV>> > reading Marx and getting insights into capitalist policy making. I agree
<DIV></DIV>> > that Capital didn't give specific info on the functioning or recuperation
<DIV></DIV>>of
<DIV></DIV>> > revolutionaries, it did provide some insights for the stewards of capital.
<DIV></DIV>> > Personally I think it's easy to make too much of the fear of recuperation.
<DIV></DIV>> > There's a bit somewhere where Benjamin talks about creating work that is
<DIV></DIV>>of
<DIV></DIV>> > absolutely no use to fascists. I can understand the impulse but am
<DIV></DIV>>doubtful
<DIV></DIV>> > as to its possibility. I'm less concerned with being co-opted than I am
<DIV></DIV>>with
<DIV></DIV>> > understanding how to make my own (individual and collective) projects
<DIV></DIV>> > recreate as little as possible of the power structures in society and be
<DIV></DIV>>as
<DIV></DIV>> > effective in opposing capitalism as possible.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Nate
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: cwright <CWRIGHT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: Re: AUT: cognitive mapping
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:48:50 -0500
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Michael,
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Capital was a critique of political economy. To the extent that
<DIV></DIV>>capital's
<DIV></DIV>> > >minions read it as an economics text, as most post-Marx Marxism has done,
<DIV></DIV>> > >they have gotten nothing out of it. Capital the book didn't give
<DIV></DIV>>capital's
<DIV></DIV>> > >minions specific insights into the functioning and means of recuperating
<DIV></DIV>> > >revolt and revolutionaries. Big difference from what is being talked
<DIV></DIV>>about
<DIV></DIV>> > >here, regardless of whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with the
<DIV></DIV>> > >cognitive mapping project.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Cheers,
<DIV></DIV>> > >Chris
<DIV></DIV>> > >"In a world which really is topsy-turvy, the true is a moment of the
<DIV></DIV>> > >false." - Debord
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >Miachael wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > I'm finding a lot of these arguments against cognitive
<DIV></DIV>> > > > mapping, because it could help the ruling class, to be
<DIV></DIV>> > > > somewhat bizarre.
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > > By this logic, Marx shouldn't have written Capital,
<DIV></DIV>> > > > because Capital has been (generally speaking) more
<DIV></DIV>> > > > useful to the ruling class (up till now), than to the
<DIV></DIV>> > > > liberatory project.
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > --- from list aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > _________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>> > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
<DIV></DIV>> > http://www.hotmail.com
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > --- from list aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> --- from list aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENCA/c157??PI=44318'>Click Here</a><br></html>
--- from list aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ---
- Thread context:
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping, (continued)
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
cwright Wed 10 Jul 2002, 05:48 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
Chris Hurl Wed 10 Jul 2002, 09:13 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
Nate Holdren Wed 10 Jul 2002, 15:20 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
cwright Wed 10 Jul 2002, 20:52 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
Chris Hurl Wed 10 Jul 2002, 21:11 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
cwright Wed 10 Jul 2002, 21:44 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
k karrow Thu 11 Jul 2002, 14:16 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
John Holloway Thu 11 Jul 2002, 14:17 GMT
- Re: AUT: cognitive mapping,
Nate Holdren Thu 11 Jul 2002, 14:31 GMT
[ Other Periods
| Other mailing lists
| Search
]