Re: AUT: Re: Marxist explanations of sexual violence

["Nate Holdren" <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Chris-
thanks for the overview. I'll definitely check out those books as time
permits. In the mean time, I have some responses to your comments-

For myself, I am playing around with some ideas about race, gender and class
>that are fairly non-traditional and grounded in the idea that the
>separation
>of the producer from the means of producing is NOT equal to class, but
>gives
>rise to class, gender, race.  I am not entirely certain that I would draw
>conclusions just yet on how that relates to violence against women.  I
>recognize it as necessary for the maintenance of women's oppression, and
>that the integration of male workers into the role of oppressor is required
>(male workers are not simply passive recipients, for example, of
>patriarchal
>violence.)  Beyond that, I really have more questions than answers as I try
>to work my view out consistently (to see if it can even be consistent.)

"violence against women as... maintenance of women's oppression [which
includes] the integration of male workers into the role of oppressor" is I
think a quite succinct statement of the problem.
If we consider that traditionally women's roles are in reproducing the male
waged worker (even when women are themselves waged workers) does this become
at all clearer? Certainly male waged workers have some interest (however
misguided, short sighted, etc) in maintaining this status, as it's a way of
forcing women to engage in uncompensated and unwanted labor, like cooking,
cleaning, sex, etc. It also maintains the family unit (at least in some
cases) out of fear of violence, as well as shame and silence which isolate
one (or encourage one to isolate oneself) and leave the family a sort of
atomic unit. This  occurs additionally by discouraging victims of abuse and
violence from having friends and relatives over, making or maintaining close
relationships, etc.
There are also policies and trends which support 'domestic' violence, like
in the US the lack of health coverage, the lack of both adequate support
networks of shelters as well as protection (either legal or extra-legal) for
those fleeing violent husbands/boyfriends, legal and police mishandling of
sexual/'domestic' violence, and social stigmas or ideologies about what
rape/domestic violence and survivors.
I think the tying of access to necessary goods to employment (wages) makes
it harder to escape from
violent partners, as the choice is often between violence at home or
uncertainty and poverty (and the continued threat of violence) after
escaping. A social wage would certainly increase the likelihood of
successful escape from violent partner.
I'm interested in the issue of where the violence comes from as well. I know
some folks (former comrades in vanguardist organizations) who argued that
ending capitalism would immediately end the oppression of women, as the
motivation to oppress women (or less psychologically put, the systematic
oppression of women) arises from alienated capitalist production relations,
as a way of maintaining capitalist production. I'm not entirely convinced. I
find the argument that what we face now is capitalist patriarchy convincing,
but at a fairly abstract level.
It seems that a good deal of the issue relates to the relationships between
and definitions of 'production', 'circulation' and 'reproduction',
debates/terms I'm not as familiar with in their marxist context.
Ah well. Thanks again Chris.
Nate

>From: cwright <cwright@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Marxist explanations of sexual violence
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:56:58 -0600
>
>Hm.  Well, I seriously doubt I can summarize that much material.
>
>All of them pose violence in relation to oppression, so there is nothing
>surprising there.  I am not sure if 'domestic' or 'relationship' abuse
>stands so much by itself.  None of these authors would say so.  In one way
>or another, each of them tries to engage with that kind of violence as both
>intimate and carried out (maybe mediated for some) by particular men from
>all social classes, but also as socially constructed violence (the violence
>of oppressive and exploitative social relations, the state.)  Some of the
>authors (Michelle Wallace, Selma James, and Barbara Smith) are/were
>revolutionaries/activists.  Michelle Wallace in particular is critiquing
>radical Black Nationalism.  Ann Oakley is a kind of dual-systems
>(patriarchy
>and capitalism as separate systems co-existing) feminist who is very
>concerned with the specificity of capitalist patriarchy and working class
>women.  Lise Vogel was a Marxist and an activist, but is also a professor
>and seems more in that place now.  She is somewhat traditional in her
>Marxism (unlike say a Raya Dunayevskaya or Mariarosa dalla Costa or Selma
>James), but she picks up the critique of Engels and post-Marx Marxism from
>within Orthodox Marxism in interesting ways.  The book I listed is not so
>clearly Marxist as her earlier work, though.  Some of the authors do a
>better job of taking race into account as well because for them race
>changes
>how gender (and gendered violence) get experienced.  I suppose I should
>have
>added Aida Hurtado's The Color of Privilege as well, since she deals with
>that very explicitly.
>
>None of these books is really about physical violence or sexual harassment
>alone, however (except Killing the Black Body, which is more about social
>violence against Black women, but which is relevant.)  They have moments
>and
>arguments that could be developed along those lines.  Aside from Susan
>Brownmiller's (racist) book on rape, I don't know a lot of books on
>violence
>by itself.  Well, except Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon.  They
>might
>be useful in some ways, although their active response has involved passing
>hate-crime laws.  Not much in the way of Marxist or anarchist.
>
>For myself, I am playing around with some ideas about race, gender and
>class
>that are fairly non-traditional and grounded in the idea that the
>separation
>of the producer from the means of producing is NOT equal to class, but
>gives
>rise to class, gender, race.  I am not entirely certain that I would draw
>conclusions just yet on how that relates to violence against women.  I
>recognize it as necessary for the maintenance of women's oppression, and
>that the integration of male workers into the role of oppressor is required
>(male workers are not simply passive recipients, for example, of
>patriarchal
>violence.)  Beyond that, I really have more questions than answers as I try
>to work my view out consistently (to see if it can even be consistent.)
>
>Some of the books (or authors) have ideas about ending women's oppression.
>I don't think any of them see the ending of violence against women as
>possible in any other context than the ending of sexism/patriarchy(and for
>some, racism and capitalism).  Each has a different vision of whether or
>not
>that is possible and these books are not always the best works to get that
>vision from.  I just wanted to try and recommend a few interesting things
>that deal with violence in one way or another.  OTJ discrimination is so
>much easier to get good stuff on, so I listed less books.
>
>Well.  That is unsatisfying, but it is all I can say at the moment.  I am a
>bit preoccupied and I am afraid it may not really address what you wanted,
>Nate.  Sorry, my mind is a bit elsewhere at the moment.  Course, that
>doesn't mean I would have a better answer either.
>
>Cheers,
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Nate Holdren" <nateholdren@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:01 PM
>Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Marxist explanations of sexual violence
>
>
> > chris and jim-
> > both of you suggested books. if possible can you summarize some of these
> > arguments? this is a very interesting and important subject,
>theoretically
> > in that those with some type of total world view must be able ot give an
> > account of these phenmonena, and more importantly practically, in that
>male
> > violence at least in the US is terribly prevalent and largely below the
> > radar of normal conversation.
> > also, do any of the book recommend engage with the question of changing
>the
> > situation, either ideas about or history of organizing that's been done
>to
> > end sexual violence?
> > thanks
> > nate
> >
>
>
>
>
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