Re: AUT: Fascism

["Tahir Wood" <twood@xxxxxxxxx>]

>>> peterzoran@xxxxxxxxxxx 02/21/02 08:03AM >>>
fascism to me means a violent anti-proletarian movement outside of the
normal channels of bourgeois rule. the obvious examples being Italian
fascism and German Nazism which were both responses to mass proletarian
struggles.

Tahir: But this is the type of definition that I was suggesting is not quite good enough. Leaving aside the question of what "normal bourgeois rule" is (if you mean liberal democracy you need to show why that is more normal than fascism), the Italian and German examples were responses to other things too. They were also responses, for example, to national humiliation and perceptions of foreign domination. If responses to mass proletarian struggles is the only criterion than one could argue that Keynes, welfare state etc. are equally responses to proletarian struggles. But they're not fascist.

as a form of government i don't think fascism is that different
to other forms of capitalist rule such as Stalinism or military
dictatorship.

Tahir: Sure but liberal democracy is a different way of ruling, through a larger degree of consent and without the ultra-nationalism that I spoke about.


if my definition is correct then fascism while not disappearing has never
reappeared fully fledged either. sure there are plenty of violent 'Nazi' or
'fascist' groups but they have little support from the bourgeoisie. they
could only get that support if proletarian revolts make normal rule
impossible.

Tahir: Once again I would have to add that they could only get that support if they create a pan-class movement, and I don't see that anything other than nationalism can do that. You could argue with a lot of justification that religion can do that, but actually if you look at religious fundamentalist movements they always fracture along national lines. Which tells us an awful lot about the power of the nation state as shaper of ideology.

Dauve/Barrot in one of his pieces on fascism claims that fascism has been
surpassed by better methods of integrating the proletariat into capitalism.

Tahir: "Better" must be seen as relative to the historical moment. Fascism keeps coming back, in my definition of it at least.

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