Fwd: AUT: Re: Pope blesses Nazi

[neil <74742.1651@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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TO:	neil, 74742,1651
DATE:	10/5/98 6:25 PM

RE:	 Fwd: AUT: Re: Pope blesses Nazi

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To: Marko Vukovic > INTERNET:MARKO.VUKOVIC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Date: 05-Oct-98 18:16 PDT
From: neil > [74742,1651]
Subj: Fwd: AUT: Re: Pope blesses Nazi

To: Marko Vukovic > INTERNET:MARKO.VUKOVIC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

cc: Neil C. > [74742,1651]
    Avi > INTERNET:MoreBlues2@xxxxxxx
    autopsy > INTERNET:aut-op-sy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Recip. Of Conf. > INTERNET:labr.party@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    A. Smeaton > INTERNET:smeatoaj@xxxxxxxx

dear Marko V.

I think in spite of your professed anarchism and
hostility to the catholic church obscurantist doctrines,
you are falling  for a "forgive and forget' bourgeois/church
campaign to whitewash the crimes of late Ustase supporter
 archbishop Stepinac, beatified by the Pope last week.

I got my info that Stepinac  as official of the Vatican
of Pope Pius 12 in the Independent ("Catholic") State of Croatia
of the Hitler/mussolini alliance & Ustase leadership
of Ante Pavelic was in complete support of the genocidal
policy not only aganist Jews , but also Serbs and roma-Gypsy.

This info -documneted can be found in the book by US
anti Vatican atheist (but non-marxist) Avro Manhattan
in his book "The Vatican in World Politics" wherein he
documents the vatican policy of supporting the Pavelic
Regimes genocide when the Axis was winning 1941-2  but then
the Vatican ( also with Stepinac) as archbishop  takes a more
cover-uppish stand of  forced "conversion" to catholicism from
1943-5 when the war tide turned -- as being the policy of
the Vatican -supported by Stepinac as Archbishop.

Manhattans book has a number of preserved  rare photographs
of the Archbishop Stepanic at Ustase Rallies and conferences
from 1942-4 (with SS officers also present) smiling all the while
as Croatian Ustashe and German SS officers give the Nazi
salute in front of both Croatian, 3rd Reich and other Axis
allied flags.

Avi's charge that Catholic Croatia of Pavelic and Stepanic
certainly murdered  tens of thousands  of defenseless civilians
(almost 120,000 Serb and Jewish civilians--NC)
and then forcibly "converted" to catholicism many of the
children of those murdered is also  carefully documented by
 the atheist Manhattan in his book.

You should check it out as you may still be able to get the
book from the American Atheists of the USA in Texas, who used
to  distribute many of  Avro Manhattan's books on the Vatican
politics and economics - and the Balkans.

In any case the point i am making here is that the
Vatican  is still a reactionary anti working class
outfit that will , especially in deepening crisis,
back the most extreme forms /groups/movements of
capitalist reaction --and beatifying Stepinac  is
only helping to stoke the coals for more nationalist
butchery in the Balkans, so maybe the Vatican can
dip its imperialist wick in deeper. But it too may
in the end get burned as well.
But the sharks intervening there are smelling more
blood.




Neil
communist-left
Http://www.ibrp.org
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TO:	neil, 74742,1651
DATE:	10/5/98 3:11 PM

RE:	Fwd: AUT: Re: Pope blesses Nazi

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Dear Neil,
the following is a response I received from an anarchist. I don't know how he
got my letter, but he did and he attacked my position for calling Stepanic a
Nazi supporter.
Please evaluate.
Avi

In a message dated 98-10-05 13:14:58 EDT, MARKO.VUKOVIC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
writes:

<< Hi!

 I kind of felt that i should react on your message posted through
 authopsy. However, this is going to your private add only.

 > Yet, they still support hateful people from amoungst their
 > midst, like Stepanic. When I read that in the paper, that made me sick.

 It's Stepinac, but that is not very important for what i have to say.

 First i'd like to mention to you that i am not pro christian nor pro
 croat. I am the editor of Comunitas, Zagreb's anarchist quarterly, and
 recenly we published numerous articles regarding the vatican's
 relationships with 3rd reich. also, we have prepared a pope special, with
 a translation of italian material made by insurekcionalists calling for
 popes murder. i was found guilty by the state in the past, because i made
 and pasted some posters during his last stay here... so i think you can't
 exactly count me in among pope's fans...

 However, i find your remark about Stepinac a rushed one. I don't know
 where did you get your information on the mattter, but you seem pretty
 convinced that he was a nazi supporter... I am not to sure about that. He
 was positioned in croatia during the quisling state that is for sure, and
 he didn't react strongly against them. That is correct. However, he was
 declared a nazi supporter by post war authoritarian communist court on his
 famous trial. You cant be serious if you're taking that as an argument
 against him. The state never gave any concrete evidence against Stepinac,
 whatsoever. They posses his diary from that time, but they never made it
 public. Why?

 In the post war era, the Communist Party tried to weaken clerical
 influence in the public. Only the have choozen authoritarin methods, just
 as they did in all other aspects. Stepinac's trial was just one among
 thousands. Many innocent people, even revolutonaries ended as the victims
 of this which hunt.

 If you accept their propaganda as a fact then you're missing one big part
 of the picture. An objective wiev on Stepinac still hasn't been made, nor
 it will be done ever. Especially now when the pope blessed him...


 kind regards

 marko vukovic

 pseudoastronaut klase C
 ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## >>


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From: MARKO.VUKOVIC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Marko Vukovic)
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Subject: Re: AUT: Re: Pope blesses Nazi
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:55:00 +0200
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Hi!

I kind of felt that i should react on your message posted through
authopsy. However, this is going to your private add only.

> Yet, they still support hateful people from amoungst their
> midst, like Stepanic. When I read that in the paper, that made me sick.

It's Stepinac, but that is not very important for what i have to say.

First i'd like to mention to you that i am not pro christian nor pro
croat. I am the editor of Comunitas, Zagreb's anarchist quarterly, and
recenly we published numerous articles regarding the vatican's
relationships with 3rd reich. also, we have prepared a pope special, with
a translation of italian material made by insurekcionalists calling for
popes murder. i was found guilty by the state in the past, because i made
and pasted some posters during his last stay here... so i think you can't
exactly count me in among pope's fans...

However, i find your remark about Stepinac a rushed one. I don't know
where did you get your information on the mattter, but you seem pretty
convinced that he was a nazi supporter... I am not to sure about that. He
was positioned in croatia during the quisling state that is for sure, and
he didn't react strongly against them. That is correct. However, he was
declared a nazi supporter by post war authoritarian communist court on his
famous trial. You cant be serious if you're taking that as an argument
against him. The state never gave any concrete evidence against Stepinac,
whatsoever. They posses his diary from that time, but they never made it
public. Why?

In the post war era, the Communist Party tried to weaken clerical
influence in the public. Only the have choozen authoritarin methods, just
as they did in all other aspects. Stepinac's trial was just one among
thousands. Many innocent people, even revolutonaries ended as the victims
of this which hunt.

If you accept their propaganda as a fact then you're missing one big part
of the picture. An objective wiev on Stepinac still hasn't been made, nor
it will be done ever. Especially now when the pope blessed him...


kind regards

marko vukovic

pseudoastronaut klase C
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##


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