Re: AUT: abstract labour

[bernhard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bernhard Doenig)]

Dear Massimo,
At this moment, I am not able to answer in a serious manner. The
difficulties may root in my problems with the english language and in the
fact, that I do not have the english translations of Marx' work. So I
could at best give my own translation of the german edition (MEW) - what
might be not very helpful. But the difficulties may also root in in a
deeply different way of reading Marx...



Massimo:
> Some scattered comments on recent postings.
>
> In response to my quotation "Marx defines abstract labour as `human labou
> r power
> expended without regard to the ***form*** of its expenditure' (Marx CI
> p.128)
Marx is speaking here (Kapital I, MEW 23, S.52) about the commodities. The
next sentence (in my translation)-): "These things represent (sic!) not
more, than that there was human labor power ependited in their production
(...)"

I wrote:
> "Marx does not define `abstract labour' in the above sense: abstract labo
> ur is not a special
> kind of work, like work which is boring. Abstract labour is work/labour
> treated as `general
> human labour' in the act of exchange of products of human work. Every wor
> k can be
> `abstract labour', if, when and insofar its products are commodities."

Massimo:
> Well we have a disagreement here. It is of course true that abstract labo
> ur (AL) is not a
> special kind of work, (like tailoring, writing, etc.), that is, not a spe
> cific concrete labour.
> Yet, this does not mean that AL is not real and tangible. In order to see
>  this however, you
> must look at Marx's meaning of the "abstract". I found his implicit discu
> ssion of the abstract
> in the manuscripts of the 1844 revealing.
Which "manuscripts" do you mean?? I have only found the "Economic-
philosophic manuscripts" (Ökonomisch-philosophische Manuskripte aus dem
Jahre 1844; MEW EB I, S.445ff); but there is no word about "abstract
labor"; Marx speaks about the alienation of work/labour and of wo/man and
this seems to me another question....


> Here you can see that for him
> the category of the
> abstract is not only a category of representation (an abstract (ideal)
> chair as opposed to this
> or that chair), but revealing of real and sensuous reality. In the manusc
> ript, the category of
> the "abstract" is a category indicating a sensuous activity, generated
> by some form of
> constraint, and therefore it is a lived experience in which human sensibi
> lity is confined and
> restricted to one dominant character, in which the form of expenditure
> of human energy in
> this activity does not matter, it is secondary, contingent.
All this we could discuss, if we replace "abstract labor" with "alienated
work/labor". Otherwise? I don't know...

> If you apply this understanding of the category of the abstract to the
> later notion of abstract
> labour, the riddle is revealed.
Not at all...

> "The realm of abstract labour is the circulation-process, where the commo
> dities are
> exchanged as products of general human work, abstract labour. Abstraction
>  is an aspect of
> commodity-producing work in capitalism, an aspect which appears before
> and after the real
> work is done"
See above...

> I disagree. In the circulation-process abstract labour finds its
represen
> tation in money. Its
> birth place is in production. Otherwise, how can you account for the dist
> inction between
> value and exchange value
??? What distinction? Between use-value and exchange-value? There the same
difference as between concrete and abstract labor...

> and how can you understand the meaning of abstra
> ct labour as
> "substance" of value?
... of exchange-value!

> "This abstraction hides exploitation. Abstract labour is measured by the
> time spent for the
> real work and represented by exchange-value and money. In capital, as the
>  unity of
> production- and circulation-process, this abstraction becomes real, it
> becomes a body, a
> name and a quality"
In this point I've made a wrong shortcut (reference to Paul!): Abstract
labor is not "measured" by social necessary labor time (or the average of
necessary time to produce this specific use-value -- I'm speaking about
real, concrete work!), but exchange-value represents "SNLT" and the price
of an specific commodity always oscillate around the relative amount of
its "SNLT".

> Instead, this abstraction becomes sensuous reality before becoming a body
> , a commodity, a
> price, an entry in a book. The relation between circulation and productio
> n process is indeed
> crucial, but not to give reality to this sensuous tangible abstraction,
> but to enforce it through
> the immanent measure of value called socially necessary labour time. And
> here I must turn
> to Paul's comment.
>
> Paul writes:
>
> "A watch measures concrete labor time. As Marx says, abstract labor time
> appears only in
> the form of its equivalent in exchange, i.e. money. It is not measurable
> otherwise"
>
> Half true. In fact, Paul you are here referring to the external measure
> of value, (money).
> Marx also refers to an immanent measure of value, that is Socially Necess
> ary Labour time
> (SNLT). The two measures are the two sides of the same coin (shitty reali
> ty and shining
> representation) as two sides of the same coin are abstract and concrete
> labour. You say
> that a watch measures concrete labour. But this measurement is not implem
> ented to satisfy
> a curiosity. You may be working slower than SNLT, then you ll feel the
> pressure to work faster. This means that within the context of this external
> pressure (emb odied by the
> foreman, competition, the bureaucrat, or who/what ever) the form of your
> labour
> expenditure becomes secondary in relation to the fact that your labour
> time must be now
> expended at a higher **rate** . The act of measurement was only a **momen
> t** in the
> process of **enforcing** abstract labour.
?? If you have to work faster or longer: this is a very concrete affair!

Ciao,
Bernhard
bernhard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.rhein-neckar.de/~wildcat/

Ciao,
Susanne
suba@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.rhein-neckar.de/~wildcat/


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