Re: economics of communist societies

[Bob Miller <bob.miller@xxxxxxxxx>]

At 06:15 PM 4/27/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Bob Miller wrote
>>
>>Finally, I agree with Harald.  Labour time vouchers were a stupid idea.  I
>>can understand why groups like the GIK came up with them, but that doesn't
>>mean that we should consider them today.  They would be just another form of
>>money and as such would tend to lead to a recreation of exchange and
>capitalism.
>
>The reason why the GIK (Jan Appel) came up with Labour Time vouchers is
>because they seriously confronted the problem of the society transitional to
>communism.   Only fantasists like Subversion and the other subscribers to
>this list can wish this problem of transition away. Marx did not view labour
>time vouchers as necessary for the fully fledged communist society (although
>Harald B seems to think that this was the case).   Furthermore Marx stated
>that labour time vouchers were personal and therefore non-exchangable so
>they would not lead to accumulation of anything. If you are going to
>criticise revolutionaries from the past like the GIK or Marx you could at
>least do them the courtesy of reading carefully what they said and
>understanding why they said it.
>
>Jock (CWO) guesting with Mauro.

My blood fair boils when I read stuff like this.  What I am going to say is
probably out of line, but to hell with it.  We may be fantasists, but we
never came up with the idea of a state to mediate between the workers
councils and other classes in a 'transitional society' and we never came out
with shit like 'It doesn't matter what Lenin did,it's what he said that
matters'.  I've heard both from CWO members, at our meetings in Manchester.

We have treated Jan Appel and the GIK seriously. You can find their work on
our website! Also, Jock, you are picking up fag ends of conversations.  I'd
earlier explained why I thought the GIk adopted labour time vouchers as a
scheme.  Partly because of the traumas associated with war communism, which
they believed to have been part of a deliberate bolshevik plan - not as
seems apparent the result of a state unable to feed the people or find
resources for industry resorting to desperate measures.  Partly because of
the artificial scarcity produced in Europe after World War One and
compounded by the Depression which made thoughts of abundance seem unreal.

It will take time to move from capitalism to a communism based on free
access to all the necessities of life. Certainly, early communism will need
to find ways to ration scarce resources.  Probably some things will be
rationed always.  Definitely concepts of need will change and some things
that seem essential will cease to do so.

What's wrong with labour time vouchers?  Capitalism bases itself on exchange
value - exchange value rests on the average of scoially necessary labour
time involved in the production of commodities.  Why the hell should a
communist society want to use the same basis for its own calculations and
distribution?  And don't be so fucking religious.  It doesn't matter squat
what Marx or the GIK said. (Contrary to what CWO members seem to think).
Unless of course, that just because Marx said so, that something becomes an
iron law which cannot be broken - like the Qu'ran or the Bible.  If tokens
of some kind exist, what's to stop folk sharing them round, what's to stop
them finding ways to accumulate them?  They seem to manage well enough these
days to get round the rules.  And anyway, whose going to enforce these rules
in a communist society - your mediating state?

I don't blame earlier revolutionaries for coming up with ideas and concepts
that today appear poorly worked out or misguided.  I do blame those who seek
to recreate them in 1997.

Bob

p.s. the latest addition to our website is "Unmasking the Zapatistas",
reprinted from Wildcat #18.  Check it out.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Subversion Home Page and texts on the German Revolution:
http//www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8195
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