Re: [A-List] Cuba and Africa

["Henry C.K. Liu" <hliu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, well, the various South Vietnam governments gave Washington fits,
but what does that prove?
Focus on the important facts.

Henry

tony black wrote:

> ...I dunno Henry....If you look at US official cold war documents and
> think tank policy appraisals (many of which you can access now
> on-line) ..they repeatedly emphasize that the Soviets were not happy
> with the Cuban involvement in Angola, that the Cuban's were screwing
> up their own policy intent vis a vis Washington, and that the Cubans
> were, essentially, a 'loose cannon', i.e. acting independently. No
> doubt the relationship was a complex one, but from my reading of this
> material, the emphasis must be placed on Castro's ideological (as
> opposed to realpolitik) commitment.
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry C.K. Liu" <hliu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "The A-List" <a-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [A-List] Cuba and Africa
>
>
> > The facts remain that without Soviet support, Cuban soldiers would
> > not be able to arrive in Africa, would not have weapons to fight with
> > and the economic wherewithal to support an expeditionary force half
> > way around the globe.  There were also disputes about British
> > independence from the US agenda during WWII, but the fact remained
> > that the US ran the show.
> >
> > I am not belittling what Cuba did. I have great admiration for
> > Castro, but it is a historical fact that no leader is always free to
> > act on ideological grounds alone. There are times to withdraw and
> > times to attack, always placing top priority on survival to fight
> > another day.  For the period 1959-76, the USSR was not yet a total
> > lost cause ideologically. And to send Cuba into Africa did make some
> > sense in that it avoided criticism of Soviet imperialist expansion.
> > It would be a small socialist country helping a national liberation
> > movement. but all through the Cold War, Soviet opposition to SA
> > apartheid was no more genuine than that of the US, highly influenced
> > by geopolitical considerations. One reason Cubans today do not talk
> > much about that period is that most Cubans do not have fond memories
> > of it. Unoffical Cuban recentment of Soviet policies remain strong.
> > On the top of the list is the way the Kremin behaved in the Cuban
> > Missile Crisis in which Cuba was treated by the Soviets as merely a
> > stage set and given no right of policy input.  Kruscheve behaved very
> > badly. Either do not put the missiles in, or not take them out once
> > they are in. In a way, Moscow did the same to Cuba in Africa, having
> > pushed Cuba in, did not give the Cubans enough to win.
> >
> > Henry C.K. Liu
> >
> > Erik Freye wrote:
> >
> > > Here are two reviews of a fairly recent book entitled
> > > "Conflicting Missions: Havana, Washington, and Africa,
> > > 1959-1976." If I recall correctly, the author had
> > > access to previously classified diplomatic documents.
> > >
> > > Maybe they will be helpful to this discussion:
> > >
> > > http://www.monthlyreview.org/0603parenti.htm
> > >
> > > http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/view/1642?PHPSESSID=b854d3619e5c55e2b684f8c4247ed473
> > >
> > >
> > > --- bar@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Having met some of the Cuban soldiers who fought in
> > > > Southern Africa I
> > > > cannot agree that Cuba was coerced. Then you would
> > > > have to argue that Che
> > > > Guevara's adventure in Tanzania-Congo was coerced
> > > > when it was clearly
> > > > idealistic.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The complexity of geopolitics interwined with
> > > > ideological conflict. Mao
> > >
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