[A-List] Chomsky on the antiwar movement

["Ralph Johansen" <michele@xxxxxxxx>]

Most important of all, at the end of this week there will be a historic
global demonstration against the war.  I'll certainly be focussing on this
remarkable near-planet-wide demo all week, but I thought I might start with
an interview Noam Chomsky did with the Guardian on the new antiwar movement,
which is now posted on the ZNET site.  Don't miss it.  Chomsky, who works
off a different cultural script than the rest of us and so sees the world in
ways that most of us in this country simply can't, touches on many matters,
but especially on the uses (or perhaps I should say, abuses) of fear in this
country and globally.  If we in the antiwar movement don't grasp the uses of
fear by this administration we'll be in terrible trouble.

Chomsky on the antiwar movement
An interview in The Guardian
by Noam Chomsky
The Guardian
By Matthew Tempest
February 4, 2003

Noam Chomsky: The [peace] demonstrations were another indication of a quite
remarkable phenomenon. There is around the world and in the United States
opposition to the coming war that is at a level that is completely
unprecedented in US or European history both in scope and the parts of the
population it draws on.

There's never been a time that I can think of when there's been such massive
opposition to a war before it was even started. And the closer you get to
the region, the higher the opposition appears to be. In Turkey, polls
indicated close to 90% opposition, in Europe it's quite substantial, and in
the United States the figures you see in polls, however, are quite
misleading because there's another factor that isn't considered that
differentiates the United States from the rest of the world. This is the
only country where Saddam Hussein is not only reviled and despised but also
feared, so since September polls have shown that something like 60-70% of
the population literally think that Saddam Hussein is an imminent threat to
their survival.

Now there's no objective reason why the US should be more frightened of
Saddam than say the Kuwaitis, but there is a reason - namely that since
September there's been a drumbeat of propaganda trying to bludgeon people
into the belief that not only is Saddam a terrible person but in fact he's
going to come after us tomorrow unless we stop him today. And that reaches
people. So if you want to understand the actual opposition to the war in the
US you have to extract that factor. The factor of completely irrational fear
created by massive propaganda, and if you did I think you'd find it's much
like everywhere else.

What is not pointed out in the press coverage is that there is simply no
precedent, or anything like a precedent, for this kind of public opposition
to a war. And it extends itself far more broadly, it's not just opposition
to war it's a lack of faith in the leaderships. You may have seen a study
released by the world economic forum a couple of days ago which estimated
trust in leaders, and the lowest was in leaders of the United States.
Trusted by little over quarter of the population, and I think that reflects
concerns over the adventurism and violence and the threats that are
perceived in the actions and plans of the current administration.

These are things that ought to be central. Even in the United States there
is overwhelming opposition to the war and that corresponding decline in
trust in the leadership that is driving the war. This has been developing
for some time but it is now reaching an unusual state, and, just to get back
to the demonstrations over the weekend, that's never happened before. If you
compare it with the Vietnam war, the current stage of the war with Iraq is
approximately like that of 1961 - that is, before the war actually was
launched, as it was in 1962 with the US bombing of South Vietnam and driving
millions of people into concentration camps and chemical warfare and so on,
but there was no protest. In fact, so little protest that few people even
remember.

The protests didn't begin to develop until several years later when large
parts of south Vietnam were being subjected to saturation bombing by B-52s,
hundreds of thousands of troops where there, hundreds of thousands had been
killed, and then even after that, when the protests finally did develop in
the US and Europe it was mostly focused on a side-issue - the bombing of
north Vietnam which was undoubtedly a crime, it was far more intense in the
south which was always the US target, and that's continued.

It's also, incidentally, recognised by the government. So when any
administration comes into office the first thing it does is have a worldwide
intelligence assessment - "What's the state of the world?" - provided by the
intelligence services. These are secret and you learn about them 30 or 40
years later when they're declassified. When the first Bush administration
came in 1989 parts of their intelligence assessment were leaked, and they're
very revealing about what happened in the subsequent 10 years about
precisely these questions.

The parts that were leaked said that it was about military confrontations
with much weaker enemies, recognising they were the only kind we were going
to be willing to face, or even exist. So in confrontations with much weaker
enemies the United States must win "decisively and rapidly" because
otherwise popular support will erode, because it's understood to be very
thin. Not like the 1960s when the government could fight a long, brutal war
for years and years practically destroying a country without any protest.
Not now. Now they have to win. They have to terrify the population to feel
there's some enormous threat to their existence and carry out a mircaculous,
decisive and rapid victory over this enormous foe and march on to the next
one.

Remember the people now running the show in Washington are mostly recycled
Reaganites, essentially reliving the script of the 1980s - that's an apt
analogy. And in the 1980s they were imposing domestic programmes which were
quite harmful to the general population and which were unpopular. People
opposed most of their domestic programmes. And the way they succeeded in
ramming it through was by repeatedly keeping the population in a state of
panic.

So one year it was an airbase in Grenada which the Russians were going to
use to bomb the United States. It sounds ludicrous but that was the
propaganda lie and it worked.

Nicaragua was "two days' marching time from Texas" - a dagger pointed at the
heart of Texas, to borrow Hitler's phrase. Again, you'd think the people
would collapse with laughter. But they didn't. That was continually brought
up to frighten us - Nicargua might conquer us on its way to conquer the
hemisphere. A national emergency was called because of the threat posed to
national security by Nicaragua. Libyan hitmen were wandering the streets of
Washington to assassinate our leader - hispanic narco-terrorists. One thing
after another was conjured up to keep the population in a state of constant
fear while they carried out their major terrorist wars.

Remember, the same people declared a war on terror in 1981 that was going to
be the centrepiece of US foreign policy focused primarily on central
America, and they carried out a war on terror in central America where they
ended up killing about 200,000 people, leaving four countries devastated.
Since 1990, when the US took them over again, they've declined still further
into deep poverty. Now they're doing the same thing for the same purposes -
they are carrying out domestic programmes to which the population is
strongly opposed because they're being harmed by them.
But the international adventurism, the conjuring up of enemies that are
about to destroy us, that's second nature, very familiar. They didn't invent
it, others have done the same thing, others have done it in history but they
became masters of this art and are now doing it again.

I don't want to suggest that they have no reasons for wanting to take over
Iraq. Of course they do - long-standing reasons that everyone knows.
Controlling Iraq will put the US in a very powerful position to extend its
domination over the major energy resources of the world. That's not a small
point.

But look at the specific timing. It's rather striking that the propaganda
drumbeat began in September - what happened in September? Well, it's when
the Congressional campaign began and it was certain that the Republicans
were not going to win it by allowing social and economic issues to dominate.
They would have been smashed. They had to do exactly what they did in the
'80s. Replace them by security issues and in the case of a threat to
security, people tend to rally around the president - a strong figure who'll
protect us from horrible dangers.

The more likely direction this will take [after a war with Iraq] will be
Iran, and possibly Syria. North Korea is a different case. What they are
demonstrating to the world with great clarity is that if you want to deter
US aggression you better have weapons of mass destruction [WMD], or else a
credible threat of terror. There's nothing else that will deter them - they
can't be deterred by conventional forces. That's a terrible lesson to teach,
but it's exactly what's being taught.

For years, experts in the mainstream have been pointing out that the US is
causing weapons proliferation by its adventures, since others cannot protect
themselves except by WMD or the threat of terror. Kenneth Waltz is one who
recently pointed this out. But years ago, even before the Bush
administration, leading commentators like Samuel Huntington in Foreign
Affairs, the main establishment journal, were pointing out that the United
States is following a dangerous course. He was talking about the Clinton
administration but he pointed out that, for much of the world, the US is now
regarded as a rogue state and the leading threat to their existence. In fact
one of the striking things about the opposition to the war now, again
unprecedented, is how broadly it extends across the political spectrum, so
the two major foreign policy journals, Foreign Affairs and Foreign Policy
have just in their recent issues run very critical articles by distinguished
mainstream figures opposing the resort to war in this case.

The American Academy of Arts and Sciences rarely takes a position on
controversial current issues has just published a long monogram on this
issue by its committee on international security giving as sympathetic as
possible an account of the Bush administration position, then simply
dismantling it line by line on very narrow grounds - much narrower than I
would prefer - but nevertheless successfully.

[There is] just a lot of fear and concern about this adventurism, what one
analyst called "sillier armchair fantasies". My concern is more "What's it
going to do to the people of Iraq" and "What's it going to do to the
region?" but these concerns are "What's it going to do to us?"

Matthew Tempest: Will the propaganda rebound if democracy is not established
in Iraq after "liberation"?

NC: You're right to call it propaganda. If this is a war aim, why don't they
say so? Why are they lying to the rest of the world? What is the point of
having the UN inspectors? According to this propaganda, everything we are
saying in public is pure farce - we don't care about the weapons of mass
destruction, we don't care about disarmament, we have another goal in mind,
which we're not telling you, and that is, all of a sudden, we're going to
bring democracy by war. Well, if that's the goal, let's stop lying about it
and put an end to the whole farce of inspections and everything else and
just say now we're on a crusade to bring democracies to countries that are
suffering under miserable leadership. Actually that is a traditional
crusade, that's what lies behind the horrors of colonial wars and their
modern equivalents, and we have a very long rich record to show just how
that worked out. It's not something new in history.

In this particular case you can't predict what will happen once a war
starts. In the worst case it might be what the intelligence agencies and the
aid agencies are predicting - namely an increase in terror as deterrence or
revenge, and for the people of Iraq, who are barely on the edge of survival,
it could be the humanitarian catastrophe of which the aid agencies and the
UN have been warning.
On the other hand, it's possible it could be what the hawks in Washington
hope - a quick victory, no fighting to speak of, impose a new regime, give
it a democratic façade, make sure the US has big military bases there, and
effectively controls the oil.

The chances that they will allow anything approximating real democracy are
pretty slight. There's major problems in the way of that - problems that
motivated Bush No 1 to oppose the rebellions in 1991 that could have
overthrown Saddam Hussein. After all, he could have been overthrown then if
the US had not authorised Saddam to crush the rebellions.

One major problem is that roughly 60% of the population is Shi'ite. If
there's any form of democratic government, they're going to have a say, in
fact a majority say, in what the government is. Well they are not
pro-Iranian but the chances are that a Shi'ite majority would join the rest
of the region in trying to improve relations with Iran and reduce the levels
of tension generally in the region by re-integrating Iran within it. There
have been moves in that direction among the Arab states, and the Shi'ite
majority in Iraq is likely to do that. That's the last thing the US wants.
Iran is its next target.

It doesn't want improved relations. Furthermore if the Shi'ite majority gets
for the first time a real voice in the government, the Kurdish minority will
want something similar. And they will want a realisation of their quite just
demands for a degree of autonomy in the northern regions. Well Turkey is not
going to tolerate that. Turkey already has thousands of troops in Northern
Iraq basically to prevent any such development. If there's a move towards
Kirkuk, which they regard as their capital city, Turkey will move to block
it, the US will surely back them, just as the United States has strongly
supported Turkey in its massive atrocities against the Kurds in the 1990s in
the south-eastern regions. What you're going to be left with is either a
military dictatorship with some kind of democratic façade, like maybe a
parliament that votes while the military runs it behind the scenes - it's
not unfamiliar - or else putting power back into the hands of something like
the Sunni minority which has been running it in the past.

Nobody can predict any of this. What happens when you start a war is
unknown. The CIA can't predict it, Rumsfeld can't predict it, nobody can. It
could be anywhere over this range. That's why sane people refrain from the
use of violence unless there are overwhelming reasons to undertake it - the
dangers are simply far too great. However it's striking that neither Bush
nor Blair present anything like this as their war aim. Have they gone to the
security council and said let's have a resolution for the use of force to
bring democracy to Iraq? Of course not. Because they know they'd be laughed
at.

Bush and his administration were telling the security council back in
November very openly and directly that the UN will be "relevant" if it
grants us the authority to do what we want, to use force when we want, and
if the UN does not grant us that authority it will be irrelevant. It
couldn't be clearer.

They said we already have the authority to do anything we want, you can come
along and endorse that authorisation or else you're irrelevant. There could
not have been a more clear and explicit way of informing the world that we
don't care what you think, we'll do what we want. That's one of the primary
reasons why US leaders' authority is collapsing in the World Economic Forum
poll.

Other countries will presumably go along with the US war - but out of fear.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=2962