Re: [A-List] Argentine spontaneous insurrection(s)

[Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:40:46 +0000, Chris Burford wrote:
>I do think that Sept 11 has shifted perceptions
>decisively to globalised  ones. The left inside
>the country and outside has to calculate how the
> anger of the population can be successful.
>Sometimes the working of  imperialism is subtle,
>although at other times it is brutal.

Shifted perceptions to globalised ones? Subtle imperialism? What on
earth are you trying to say? It would be more useful if you expressed
yourself in plain language.

>But with Argentina the strategy is one of brutal
>apparent *non*  involvement. The line is that
>the problem is that of the Argentinians to
>resolve.

This is bizarre. Argentina's problems are identical to Yugoslavia's
in the 1980s. It was bled dry by the IMF and multinational
corporations. The regime imposed on the Argentine people was the
product of a unilateral and meddling foreign policy of the USA going
back to the Monroe Doctrine. After Peron was overthrown under direct
US pressure, the republic of Argentina has tried one unsuccessful
strategy after another to adapt to the capitalist world system.
Nothing has been successful. This opens the door to socialist
solutions. It is too bad that you reject socialism and have gone over
whole-hog to Blairism, Natoism and unclear language. Otherwise you'd
be useful to the movement rather than an omnipresent reformist
pressure on leftwing email lists.

>If purple prose fits, fine. But how are  people
>in Argentina to judge which  reforms are
>possible and progressive, and which are not. I
>would appreciate  Louis's alternative less
>egregious formula.

How are people to judge? Through mass participatory politics, that's
how. For this to succeed, they must reject reformist solutions and
make their own history. Nothing else will succeed.

>Because, as the vivid report from Pablo
>testified and as foreign  newsreports now
>explicitly claim, part of the resistance to the
>austerity  measures comes from the middle
>classes. The

Yes, Carlos Rebello addressed this question on Marxmail:

See Nestor's reply, that puts the problem into an entire new light.
We 're , I think, VERY FAR froma new age in Argentina, as long as
this kind of moralistic, petit-bourgeois ranting about well-known
individual instances of corruption (and the compliance of notables'
higher courtes with it)does not disappear to the profit of a
THROUGHLY critique of neoliberalism. The 1992 Brazilian
manifestations against Collor, which were  hailed as the dawn of an
ideologically free New Age for Brazilian politics, only served to
legitimize the position of the old ruling elite as against the
upstart Collor and to pave the way for the Professor Doctor Cardoso,
a prizewinner upstart who, thanks to his respectful stance towards
the vested interest, quickly managed in the least 7 years to outstrip
Collor by far in all matters. Nothing could be more of a sorry
mistake to take these middle-class self-righteousness as somekind of
a "New Age".

Carlos Rebello

>The problem is that without radical reforms at a
>world level, Bush can  stand back and leave
>successive Argentinian governments to go
>bankrupt,  until the burden of the global crisis
>of capitalism is accepted by the  Argentinian
>people.

Nobody knows what you mean by "radical reforms". You are for fixing
the IMF. If this radical, I am the nephew of Jesus Christ.

>There are parallels with Albania a few years
>ago, that had a mass, indeed  armed, revolution
>against a comprador regime, and yet had no
>radical  strategy to put in place that was
>effectively national popular and  democratic let
>alone socialist. Now you can say that the
>problem is a  crisis of leadership, but that is
>circular.

No, the problem is superficial thinking. Nobody knows what you are
talking about. To characterize revolution and counter-revolution in
Albania in one sentence and then to use that to illustrate the
problems of socialist transformation in Argentina is an insult to
this or any serious leftwing forum.

>Certainly it is important and progressive when
>there are national and  popular revolts against
>the imperialist global economic system. But does
> anyone seriously think they can now lead to a
>revolution without radical  (revolutionary)
>reforms at a global level?

Yawn. You said this already.

>Are there any statements from progressive people
>from Argentina and  neighbouring countries, such
>as Uruguay or Brazil. Or are people reaching
>for their revolvers. Because revolvers won't
>stop Bush. There are a lot of  revolvers in the
>USA and that does not lead to revolution.

No, revolutionary consciousness leads to revolution. It will arise on
the ground and on electronic forums such as this, despite your best
efforts. Which are not very good, when you stop and think about it.
You are repetitious and inarticulate. If you want to take lessons in
effective reformist communications, I'd recommend the speeches of
Norman Thomas or the writings of the Fabian Socialists.


--
Louis Proyect, lnp3@xxxxxxxxx on 12/31/2001

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